View Poll Results: Will the Ukraine lead to further Regional Conflicts?

Voters
51. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, Putin is determined to build an empire.

    20 39.22%
  • No, we'll crush them economically.

    2 3.92%
  • Our military really scares them.

    1 1.96%
  • Diplomacy will win the day.

    5 9.80%
  • This event will fade away in time.

    25 49.02%
  • Give them a basket of fish.

    8 15.69%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

  1. #11
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    I do not see any "US vs Russia".
    Envidia te mata !!!

    The blind leading the blind !!!


  2. #12
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Why would Russia remove its troops at this point, when it would just mean that EU/U.S. troops would move in and take their place, prop up the illegal interim government, and divorce the Ukraine from its relationship with Russia which more than 60% of the people there don't support (according to polls)?

    If the west didn't want Russia involved then maybe they should stop using their intelligence agencies to create internal agitation in countries like Ukraine, disguised as pro-democracy pro-EU movements.

    Russia has done some scary **** in the past, like with Georgia, but this time Russia is 100% entitled to do what it's doing.

  3. #13
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    IMO he seriously overreached here.

    The argument that Russia reserves the right to invade and occupy areas where ethnic Russians are at "risk" should frighten every nation around Russia that has any material number of ethnic Russians. Why would any nation who respects its own sovereignty and territorial integrity want to move closer into Russia's sphere of influence? There's no question now that Ukraine is forever lost to Russia. Instead of ensuring that Ukraine will move solidly East, it will now move solidly West into the EU sphere of influence. Expect other FSU nations to follow suit now that they know the Bear is not their friend, but a nation that now views them as lunch. Furthermore, the EU has seen the true face of Putin and knows they cannot trust them at all. Expect hydrocarbon domestic production to boost as well as more contracts with US exporters and Middle Eastern suppliers. EU is reliant on them for about 30% and that amount can be severely reduced over the next couple of years.

    I don't think Russia has any international support for what it just did. China is absolutely livid over what Putin did as it now grants more international justification for nations to invade China and give its various areas who are vying for independence or more autonomy just that. China normally lock steps votes with Russia, but the recent UN resolution they refused to veto. China has to be calling Russia up screaming at what they're doing.

    He over-reached? When none can respond Militarily? When Russia can veto at any time with the Security Counsel? When he took the Crimea without firing a shot?

    Btw China Abstained. Not so Upset with Russia. But not backing their play either.


    Since Russia is an original permanent member of the UN Security Council, she can and will veto any UN condemnation resolutions and diplomatic avenues of redress.

    As expected, Russia has vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution sponsored by the United States (41 co-sponsors) which declares the March 16 referendum in Crimea illegal and called upon the international community to not acknowledge any change in the officially recognized and legal status of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. The decision of China to abstain signifies that the Russian government is virtually isolated politically in its declarations that the Crimean referendum is legal and binding.

    Voting "Yes": United States, United Kingdom, France, Lithuania, Rwanda, Chile, Argentina, Australia, Republic of Korea, Nigeria, Chad, Jordan, Luxembourg

    Voting "No": Russian Federation

    Abstain: China

    Security Council Fails to Adopt Text Urging Member States Not to Recognize Planned 16 March Referendum in Ukraine’s Crimea Region.....snip~

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...2014-a-73.html

    Put up by Simplexity earlier today.

  4. #14
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    He over-reached? When none can respond Militarily? When Russia can veto at any time with the Security Counsel? When he took the Crimea without firing a shot?

    Btw China Abstained. Not so Upset with Russia. But not backing their play either.
    Considering that China typically lock step votes, this is the best that could have happened. Russia broke China's cardinal rule. They cannot be happy watching their ally break what is essentially their "prime directive" in foreign policy.

    Russia over reached when you consider the implications down the line.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #15
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Considering that China typically lock step votes, this is the best that could have happened. Russia broke China's cardinal rule. They cannot be happy watching their ally break what is essentially their "prime directive" in foreign policy.

    Russia over reached when you consider the implications down the line.
    China has played the same game with Taiwan over and over again. Russia is NOT their ally. In fact they believe Russia to be holding a good chunk of what is rightfully their territory (Siberia). They continually hold "war games" along that border looking for an opportunity to take it back. If anything I'd think China's respect for Russia went up a notch or two seeing how they managed this.

  6. #16
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Russia seems to have Crimea, locked up, as a part of their country.

    How far will the US and EU pursue this issue, after the Crimea province and Ukraine leadership is settled and stable?

    Is this about energy only, or are we really concerned about the people?
    The US isn't going to do ****. If one of them were part of the Muslim Brotherhood, then Obama might actually do something.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  7. #17
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Considering that China typically lock step votes, this is the best that could have happened. Russia broke China's cardinal rule. They cannot be happy watching their ally break what is essentially their "prime directive" in foreign policy.

    Russia over reached when you consider the implications down the line.

    Not as much as people think. From Gladiator.


    Fuel means the type you need, when you are short. Gas and Oil are not easily interchangeable, to any large degree. The US has Gas, but prohibits liquefied exports.


    "Led by the powerhouse lobbying of the American Petroleum Institute, a coalition of Fortune 500 energy companies are using the Ukraine crisis to spur Congress to approve a key policy goal: Easing regulations on the export of U.S. natural gas.

    Despite a decade-long boom in U.S. natural gas production, very little of America's vast gas reserves are exported.. That's because strict regulations on the transfer and storage of gas have made it impossible to profitably ship out of the U.S.

    Oil and gas companies have paid Washington lobbyists millions in recent years to challenge the strict export rules -- to no avail, until now."


    U.S. Push For Natural Gas Exports To Help Ukraine Won't Actually Help Ukraine

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...2014-a-65.html

  8. #18
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    China has played the same game with Taiwan over and over again.
    Not really. Formosa along with a few other islands have always historically been Chinese in some sense.

    Russia is NOT their ally. In fact they believe Russia to be holding a good chunk of what is rightfully their territory (Siberia).
    Russia is their ally from an economic and ideological standpoint. Ukraine sits on a great deal of former Polish territory. Do you see anyone scraping over that? Besides, China knows it can get the value out of Siberia without owning it. It's not that big of a deal as opposed to its issues with Japan and South Korea who is far more strict on who get access to the resources. And let's not even start on the Spratley Islands.

    They continually hold "war games" along that border looking for an opportunity to take it back. If anything I'd think China's respect for Russia went up a notch or two seeing how they managed this.
    Meh. China and Russia have moved long past the cold war. As for China's respect, that remains to be seen. Russia could be in for a big artificial recession soon.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #19
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Let him have it. Crimea's only been in the Ukraine since Khrushchev put it there in '54 anyway- it was all the USSR and it was just an adminstative thing. Why does anyone care if it's returned to Russia?
    Before Khrushchev the Ukraine asked to come under being a protective under the Russian Czarist back during the mid 1600's. They remained so until 1920 when the Ukraine became part of the USSR.

    I think there is some comparisons to the Sudetenland during the 1930's and Crimea today.

    When you have foreigners living in a country who refuse to assimilate and hold on to the customs, culture and language of their motherland, **** like this happens.

    Mexico is watching closely at what Putin is doing and what little Obama can do because we are no longer the super power we were before 2009. I'm waiting for the Mexican Army to annex the city of Los Angeles.

  10. #20
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Seahawks.

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