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U.S. - Russia, who wins?

Will the Ukraine lead to further Regional Conflicts?

  • Total voters
    47
Peter Grimm said:
Aww come on buddy ole pal. Don't be mad.

There's nothing to get worked up about. We're here discussing politics because, supposedly, that's fun. In this case, I think Obama is doing a terrible job and he needs to grow a set and deal with the Russians from a position if strength, rather than a bent over position with his cheeks spread wide. I take it you disagree?
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Reading the history of the whole region and then putting it in the light of the West/Russian dealings with Muslims worldwide, this was a done deal between West Europe, the USA and Russia before it began. All the words said are just diversionary noise.

The West and USA are not going to do anything but make noise over what they wanted and planned with Russia to happen. The President doesn't himself and the politicians do not make these decisions. They just have to try to make themselves look good when it does.
 
LadyMoonlight said:
Out of curiosity, was the vote by secret ballot, or was a soldier standing next to each voter watching him/her cast their vote? If it was a secret ballot, then why would anyone be intimidated as no one would know what the person voted. If it wasn't, then, of course, the result cannot be taken seriously.
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It doesn't matter what the voters did. According to the White House, Russia provided pre-marked ballots that were counted by those who had already declared they wanted the outcome to be to join Russia. The "95%" result proves it a fraud anyway, since this has been voted on before in Crimea and it has gone both ways by very narrow margins.

When you already have the ballots you want and are going to count, it doesn't matter what the voters do as their ballots just get burned anyway.

The USA and West wanted this outcome anyway. It's all just smoke and mirrors diversionary issues anyway.
 
The EU especially needs to be very careful about sanctions on Russia. If Russia decides that it's just not worth doing business with Europe, natural gas prices will go way up. They may not freeze anymore, but they'll be paying a lot more money.

I just have trouble taking the West seriously on this. They talk about the "elected leaders" when the elected leaders are the guys that got deposed in their revolution. They talk about "territorial integrity" on a piece of land that was part of Russia before Kruschev played with internal borders of the USSR. The referendum is decried as "unconstitutional" but the revolution wasn't exactly constitutional either.

It just sounds like the West wants to have it their way - we're not standing up for the democratic process in Ukraine, and in fact the only vote on any of this has been called a fraud. What we should have done is go with Putin to put Yanukovich back in - "We don't like him either, but he was elected and we think the democratic process is important." Our desire to have it both ways has created this whole problem in the first place
 
grip said:
Russia seems to have Crimea, locked up, as a part of their country.

How far will the US and EU pursue this issue, after the Crimea province and Ukraine leadership is settled and stable?

Is this about energy only, or are we really concerned about the people?
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This will likely blow up into something that ****s all of us over in the end.
 
rocket88 said:
The EU especially needs to be very careful about sanctions on Russia. If Russia decides that it's just not worth doing business with Europe, natural gas prices will go way up. They may not freeze anymore, but they'll be paying a lot more money.

I just have trouble taking the West seriously on this. They talk about the "elected leaders" when the elected leaders are the guys that got deposed in their revolution. They talk about "territorial integrity" on a piece of land that was part of Russia before Kruschev played with internal borders of the USSR. The referendum is decried as "unconstitutional" but the revolution wasn't exactly constitutional either.

It just sounds like the West wants to have it their way - we're not standing up for the democratic process in Ukraine, and in fact the only vote on any of this has been called a fraud. What we should have done is go with Putin to put Yanukovich back in - "We don't like him either, but he was elected and we think the democratic process is important." Our desire to have it both ways has created this whole problem in the first place
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Why would there be sanctions? Once again, White people - USA, EU and Russia - kicked ass on those damn dirty Muslims. White people rule and own all but Asia and nobody better forget it.

There will be a lot of irrelevant noise until the next diversions come along.
 
Ikari said:
This will likely blow up into something that ****s all of us over in the end.
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Ultimately Muslim payback will come, but that's a long way off. It may will "blow up," as in nuclear. But it won't be between Russia and the USA. Muslims and the white West.
 
joko104 said:
Ultimately Muslim payback will come, but that's a long way off. It may will "blow up," as in nuclear. But it won't be between Russia and the USA. Muslims and the white West.
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I didn't mean it will literally explode. But rather that neither the Russian people nor the American nor the European People will be served by what's likely to turn out of this political pissing match.
 
iliveonramen said:
Because that was the alternate provided. What are we going to measure his foreign policy reaction to? Some fictitious non-extent easy solution that just assumes if he was "tougher" Syria would be solved, Iran would give up nukes, and Putin would be scared to expand?
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Well, yes, that would be what one would compare it to. He is the President after all, and it is his "policy" to consider.
 
Ikari said:
This will likely blow up into something that ****s all of us over in the end.
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MMC made a good point in another thread, that some sort of clash was inevitable with large nations struggling for global resources. Unlike China, we don't have enough direct trade to hurt each other that much.

As long as Obama is making hour long phone calls, they'll work it out. It's when the talking is over that things turn serious.
 
does crimea have any natural resouces? and if they have citizens that like russia.. who are we to say anything..people dont like obama but the majority of people put him in.. fsx f15 tomcat jpg1.jpg
 
joko104 said:
Everything is going exactly according to plan. Between the USA and Russia the Muslim population of the Ukraine is now entirely under control.

White people still control the world and aren't planning on giving that up. Not to a bunch of dirty poor Muslims anyway. Deals can be cut with Asians giving them their cut of the Muslim world, like giving China Iraq's oil. The USA gets Afghanistan's oil, plus we get Kuwait's oil - a country we carved out of nothing. Russia gets the resources of Crimea and a permanent stranglehold on Ukraine.

What's not to like if you are Western and white about this? White people once again prove they rule the world!
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Well hell, why didn't they just say so? Whitey still in charge? Than my privilege is safe and sound and I can sleep well at night.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!
 
Who cares actually the EU will come out with 90% of Ukraine and Russia got the the energy producing sector of Crimea.
Both sides will get what they want.
 
ChezC3 said:
Well hell, why didn't they just say so? Whitey still in charge? Than my privilege is safe and sound and I can sleep well at night.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!
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LMAO white mans burden of what working?
White men have been at the forefront of that!
 
APACHERAT said:
That one slipped by me. I didn't think of that ?

After Alaska it will be the Northwest in the CONUS. Russia even laid claim to California and even established forts in Northern California during the early 1800's.

Fort Ross, California. -> Russian Expansion To America (Russian American Company in California)
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Yes, Fort Ross was "El Fuerte de los Rusos", the Fort of the Russians. That was what spurred the Spanish to build the missions in a vain attempt to make over the native Californians into Spaniards.

But, I'd be surprised to find that Russia has designs on California today.
 
The Mark said:
From that link, it looks like the "gist of the poem" is different depending on who is reading it.
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Yeah, well men were men before they weren't.
 
LadyMoonlight said:
Out of curiosity, was the vote by secret ballot, or was a soldier standing next to each voter watching him/her cast their vote?
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Does it matter? When Russia has 16,000 troops, armored personnel carriers, HIND attack helicopters and is massing armor across the strait from the city of Krech, it's pretty obvious what they're going to do if they don't get their way. Furthermore, news is coming out how people were being told how to vote and how certain local politicians had their votes cast for them.

If it was a secret ballot, then why would anyone be intimidated as no one would know what the person voted. If it wasn't, then, of course, the result cannot be taken seriously.
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Any election where the vote options are decided by an occupying power cannot be taken seriously. Especially one who has made it clear that they intend upon annexing the area as soon as possible.

The "President" of Crimea was installed despite the last local election where he only gathered 4% of the vote. This is a kangaroo election.
 
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