View Poll Results: Will the Ukraine lead to further Regional Conflicts?

Voters
51. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, Putin is determined to build an empire.

    20 39.22%
  • No, we'll crush them economically.

    2 3.92%
  • Our military really scares them.

    1 1.96%
  • Diplomacy will win the day.

    5 9.80%
  • This event will fade away in time.

    25 49.02%
  • Give them a basket of fish.

    8 15.69%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

  1. #121
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    China
    Except they stand to lose one of their biggest markets if the US loses too badly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    At the end of WW2, there was a sort of stalemate between the Russians and the Americans over what to do with a then-tattered Europe. A tentative balance held during the Cold War, where eastern bloc countries like Poland, East Germany, and Soviet States like Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and so forth fell under the sphere of Russian influence. Western European states (the NATO states) fell under the American sphere.

    At the end of the Cold War, the balance shifted decidedly westward. Poland and Germany shifted from East to West. The European Union formed.

    Where the Russians seem to have drawn the line is with the old Soviet states. Under the Bush administration, they invaded Georgia. As Ukraine seemed to be moving westward, the Russians, predictably, reacted with force.

    If we simply allow Russia to take Ukraine, we see the balance of power in Europe shift away from the United States and toward Russia for the first time since the end of the Cold War.

    Unsurprisingly, it's happening under the leadership of Barak Obama.
    and GWB.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  2. #122
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Ehhhh...if Obama wasn't President it would of been McCain. I think that's a pretty big reason to care about his view on foreign policy.


    Yeah...I want a president that responds to specific circumstances based upon the interest of the US. Not some broad sweeping policy that the invasion of Georgia is met with the same response as say a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
    Well, since McCain didn't win, I can see why one would spend time thinking about his foreign policy.

  3. #123
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We should honor our commitment and help the Ukrainians re-establish their legal territory. That doesn't mean the USA going to war, but it does mean training, arming, and aiding the Ukrainians.
    That may lead to war. If the US is arming/training/aiding the Ukrainians in large enough numbers to fight off Russian invasion that's a lot of aide. The Ukraine is plains not rocky mountainous terrain with sparsely populated countrysides.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  4. #124
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, since McCain didn't win, I can see why one would spend time thinking about his foreign policy.
    Because that was the alternate provided. What are we going to measure his foreign policy reaction to? Some fictitious non-extent easy solution that just assumes if he was "tougher" Syria would be solved, Iran would give up nukes, and Putin would be scared to expand?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  5. #125
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    China
    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Because that was the alternate provided. What are we going to measure his foreign policy reaction to? Some fictitious non-extent easy solution that just assumes if he was "tougher" Syria would be solved, Iran would give up nukes, and Putin would be scared to expand?
    If only he'd give up those mom jeans, all those problems would go away.
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  6. #126
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Russia seems to have Crimea, locked up, as a part of their country
    .

    How far will the US and EU pursue this issue, after the Crimea province and Ukraine leadership is settled and stable?

    Is this about energy only, or are we really concerned about the people?



    Makes a lot of sense, most of the people in Crimea are Russians.




    "If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day.

    If you teach a man how to fish, he wastes all of his time fishing and you can take care of his woman."
    Last edited by shrubnose; 03-17-14 at 05:43 PM.

  7. #127
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    So just let Russia walk all over us? The Kremlin is making a land/power grab and Obama is sitting around like a flaccid wet noodle. What an absolute sissy.

    Nobody said anything about us going to war, but we need to assist the Ukrainians.



    If you want to assist the Ukrainians, get on over there and assist them, but don't try to drag the USA into a mess that doesn't concern it.

  8. #128
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    This may all be true to some degree but the main reason they're struggling for control over the Ukraine is gas and border security. Russia needs the money and backed Assad in Syria to block the southern gas line from Qatar from coming thru. The more old provinces Russia loses dominance over, the less resources they have for financial returns and global influence.





    Russia definitely wants Crimea because of its peoples alliance and naval bases, but they didn't support Yakanovich just to annex Crimea. Currently, about two-thirds of Russia’s gas exports to Europe travel through Ukraine. Though, I think they could settle for Crimea and build alternative pipelines to the EU, gaining the offshore deposits.

    The Ukrainians will definitely not want to loose that province, but I'm not sure Russia will allow much of a resistance. That's why the poll, and wondering how far will the West resist Putin's advances?
    True, I agree that there is significant gas and oil concerns in this. However, this just proves even more how much of a rash overreaction he has made. For the foreseeable future, his gas still needs to flow through Ukraine to Europe. The only difference now is that he has turned the Ukrainian government against him to a point where I don't see how they can reestablish good relations in the near future, and the EU will start to phase out their dependence on Russian oil if possible. When it comes to to Crimea. He will have to pour in money in the billions to create infrastructure, pay for pensions, route utilities, and like you said, establish an oil route through it if that is one of their end goals. He would have still had his black sea fleet HQ there, the only difference now is that he has to figure out how to get the Ukrainian military out, which I think will get messy. He can only hope the Tartars remain passive in all of this too. Lastly, he now has to deal with cool relations with the West and a few of his nationalist buddies will have sanctions placed on them.

    In other words, had he not overreacted then he would have retained everything and lost nothing.

  9. #129
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    That may lead to war. If the US is arming/training/aiding the Ukrainians in large enough numbers to fight off Russian invasion that's a lot of aide. The Ukraine is plains not rocky mountainous terrain with sparsely populated countrysides.
    We did it in Afghanistan. The afghans then kicked the russian's butts. The difference is that Reagan had a set, Obama is afraid of the Russians.

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    If you want to assist the Ukrainians, get on over there and assist them, but don't try to drag the USA into a mess that doesn't concern it.
    USA needs to be involved, quit being scared of Russia.

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