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Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room?

So do you think the father has a legal right to see his baby born or be in the room?

  • Yes, he has a legal right and my opinion agrees with that.

    Votes: 7 12.7%

  • Yes, he has a legal right and in my opinion he shouldnt.

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • No, he has no legal right and my opinion agrees with that.

    Votes: 35 63.6%

  • No, he has no legal right and in my opinion he should.

    Votes: 2 3.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 7 12.7%

  • I Love Chicken Parm

    Votes: 9 16.4%
  • Total voters
    55
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

AGENT J said:
I think SOME men confuse their own issues and short comings with what is normal/typical.

normal people don't rape, normal men are sex crazed animals that lose control over themselves. Like you said that would be mentally retarded.

do mistakes happen? YES (men and women)
do people get frisky and make poor decisions? YES (men and women)

and these happenings are just tied to sex they are tied to many things, love, money, food etc
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I'm pretty sure that no one here is talking about rape.

They're talking about young girls being wise enough to "keep it in their pants," or use protection when they choose not to.

While I would say that young men ultimately share the same responsibility, I don't see anything wrong with suggesting that sexuality be approached in a sober and level headed manner.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Henrin said:
Men aren't getting pregnant and if it wasn't for child support there would be no risk to him for getting a woman pregnant.
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Irrelevant. IF men do not want to be responsible, they have to make responsible decisions too. Sorry that you have to be responsible for your decisions and not just the woman anymore. That is just unacceptable in today's day and age.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
WHAT? You don't have to be married to be pregnant, and the people in the OP are NOT married either.
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What I meant was could she have married the dude even if he was willing, since she is only 15? Unwed mothers are not a new thing. Maybe that's why he is willing to pay child support, knowing that she cant provide much for the child on her own since she is still in high school.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
You are wrong. There are PLENTY of women who have just as high as sex drive as men.
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I wasn't commenting on their sex drive.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gathomas88 said:
I'm pretty sure that no one here is talking about rape.

They're talking about young girls being wise enough to "keep it in their pants," or use protection when they choose not to.

While I would say that young men ultimately share the same responsibility, I don't see anything wrong with suggesting that sexuality be approached in a sober and level headed manner.
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No but all of these have been used for "excusing" men for bad behavior. Blame the woman because of how she is dressed, blame the woman because SHE is the one who gets pregnant, blame the woman because SHE should make better decisions, etc., etc. It's really just sickening.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
Irrelevant. IF men do not want to be responsible, they have to make responsible decisions too. Sorry that you have to be responsible for your decisions and not just the woman anymore. That is just unacceptable in today's day and age.
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Yeah, so you agree the only way a man has anything to concern himself with is if he either chooses to care or if the law goes after him. I take it you would agree then that there is no biological reason to consider the sexes equally interested in protection from pregnancy.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Henrin said:
I wasn't commenting on their sex drive.
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That is what we are talking about. Sex and pregnancy and who is "responsible." BOTH parties are responsible. Both made choices and decisions. One is not necessarily smarter or more intelligent because of gender.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Henrin said:
Yeah, so you agree the only way a man has anything to concern himself with is if he either chooses to care or if the law goes after him. I take it you would agree then that there is no biological reason to consider the sexes equally interested in protection from pregnancy.
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Of course there is if you are a real man and care about your offspring.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

leoborn said:
What I meant was could she have married the dude even if he was willing, since she is only 15? Unwed mothers are not a new thing. Maybe that's why he is willing to pay child support, knowing that she cant provide much for the child on her own since she is still in high school.
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What in the hell does this have to do with the OP or what we are discussing. The only reason why I brought a 15-year-old into the conversation was to show that it is unreasonable to expect the "woman" to be the one to make a "good" decision regarding sex and it's consequences.

Equal blame goes to both parties because they both participated in actions that resulted in a pregnancy.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gathomas88 said:
1.)I'm pretty sure that no one here is talking about rape.
2.)They're talking about young girls being wise enough to "keep it in their pants," or use protection when they choose not to.
3.)While I would say that young men ultimately share the same responsibility, I don't see anything wrong with suggesting that sexuality be approached in a sober and level headed manner.
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1.) i mentioned it because it was mentioned already, at least twice if not more times
2.) im fine with this and boys have the same options
3.) nothing wrong with that either

the point is that goes both ways :shrug:
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
No but all of these have been used for "excusing" men for bad behavior. Blame the woman because of how she is dressed, blame the woman because SHE is the one who gets pregnant, blame the woman because SHE should make better decisions, etc., etc. It's really just sickening.
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Personally, I'm not "excusing" anyone. Both parties are guilty of making poor decisions.

Women simply happen to have a lot more to lose from risky sex than men do, so it is, practically speaking, in their best interests to be more careful.

Even if a guy who knocks a girl up and bolts afterwards is morally in the "wrong," it doesn't change the fact that the girl is the one who's going to end up having to deal with the pregnancy and resulting child.

As you said yourself, "life isn't fair." There's no real point in complaining about it. :shrug:
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

OscarB63 said:
funny isn't it?

now a woman having the father of her child present during child birth is equivalent to a man getting assraped. :lamo
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Are we back to you needing words of 2 syllables again? It's about how you'd feel if someone you didnt like (or anyone) watched that happen to you. Not the act itself. And video'd it? With the ability to post it to the whole world?

How would you feel when you met up with them afterwards? Esp. if they were someone you had a bad relationship with?
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gathomas88 said:
Personally, I'm not "excusing" anyone. Both parties are guilty of making poor decisions.

Women simply happen to have a lot more to lose from risky sex than men do, so it is, practically speaking, in their best interests to be more careful.

Even if a guy who knocks a girl up and bolts afterwards is morally in the "wrong," it doesn't change the fact that the girl is the one who's going to end up having to deal with the pregnancy and resulting child.
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This is true and I'm not denying that. I am saying that it is unreasonable to expect the woman to make a better decision than the man. She could be slow, she could be young, she could be just naive, she could have been just plain old seduced and horny. Just because the consequences are going to be greater, that doesn't mean her decisions are going to be any better, and the same goes for the man. If he knows a woman is crazy, and he sleeps with her anyway, is that HER fault?

There have MULTIPLE cases of women who are mentally challenged who have been impregnated MULTIPLE times. Is it "their" fault? Should they be guarding against pregnancy because the men are innocent victims of their sexuality? It is just so ridiculous to me.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:
Currently he can't go into the delivery room without the woman's consent. Even without the courts, the hospital would not allow it. Maybe some day he will have the privilege to watch the birth of his child via a closed circuit TV. What I am arguing is how jilted the laws are against fathers and need to change. And slowly but surely fathers are gaining their overdue rights. But it is far from being fair. There's legislation coming forth in different states that would force the mother to notify the father in advance of an abortion. The man can't stop it but can then legally sue her for damages. There's been an increase in paternal grandparents being awarded custody of their grandchildren. There is other legislation that has been proposed, I believe in Utah and Michigan where a woman can not give up a child for adoption unless she has the consent of the father allowing him/his parents custody of the child. The whole "my body my choice" as a right is not constitutional when it denies paternal rights to fathers.
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But that will not happen anytime soon and even then, this birthing situation would still not be changed because changing it would violate the constitutional rights that the woman has to not have someone present at her birth against her will.

And the legislation in states in which they force the mother to notify the father in advance of abortion will never come into law because they have already been found unconstitutional in Planned Parenthood v. Casey. They struck down the spousal notice requirement, stating that it gave too much power to husbands over their wives and would worsen situations of spousal abuse.

And I doubt the supreme court, who struck down forcing notification because it give men too much power over their wives will ever agree to them being able to legally sue her for damages (for more than one reason IMHO, first of all the woman will have done nothing illegal and there is no actual damages incurred by the husband IMHO).

And grandparents getting custody for their grandchildren is sometimes good for the children but with no child if the woman chooses to have an abortion I do not see what that has to do with this issue.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gathomas88 said:
Personally, I'm not "excusing" anyone. Both parties are guilty of making poor decisions.

Women simply happen to have a lot more to lose from risky sex than men do, so it is, practically speaking, in their best interests to be more careful.

Even if a guy who knocks a girl up and bolts afterwards is morally in the "wrong," it doesn't change the fact that the girl is the one who's going to end up having to deal with the pregnancy and resulting child.

As you said yourself, "life isn't fair." There's no real point in complaining about it. :shrug:
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That's the only reason why I may give this girl a pass. If guys can "fire and flee", then the woman can call a few more shots when it comes to the baby. Having said that, I'm much more sympathetic to men who do that now, whereas I used to consider them rather sleazy. Now they're just doing the logical thing when you nail a bitch that turns out to be a wackjob.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

lizzie said:
You are completely wrong when you try to say that people like me teach them it's okay. I raised two sons, and what I told them is this:
"Do not trust a girl to be honest with you about taking the pill or protecting herself from pregnancy. Always take it upon yourself to make sure it doesn't happen, because if you end up getting a girl pregnant, you are going to be dropping out of school, and getting a job, to help raise your child. I am not raising your kids. If you have them, they are yours to take care of, so I'm just forewarning you to be very cautious". If you don't believe I told my sons that, you would be mistaken. I intentionally told them not to trust girls, for the very reason that I see in your posts. Girls who refuse to accept total responsibility for their own bodies are no more trustworthy than a young boy with a hard-on.
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I remember having a similar talk with my son. And I also gave him some advice in choosing girls. I told him when I was in high school there was a group of girls that weren't not complete unless they had a boyfriend. I warned him to stay away from them because they were needy and later could cause him grief. You know it is no secret that girls who grow up with out a loving father, tend to be the needy ones because they never had a man in their lives to teach them their self worth.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
Of course there is if you are a real man and care about your offspring.
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I already covered that by saying they decide to care. The fact remains that government force imposes on the man and that is the only reason besides his own good character to care if he gets a woman pregnant. The woman has to deal with pregnancy and there is no outside force ever necessary for that to happen. She is just naturally more interested in protecting herself from pregnancy.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gipper said:
I personally would not punish my child or the mother with a tantrum.

Men do things all the time for women - they grit their teeth, force a smile, and do it.

We do that because we're more mature than to use something as punishment or leverage. Men are obviously more mature.
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And here's what I say:

I personally would not punish my child or the father with a tantrum.

Women do things all the time for men - they grit their teeth, force a smile, and do it.

We do that because we're more mature than to use something as punishment or leverage. Women are obviously more mature.
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:mrgreen:
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Peter King said:
But that will not happen anytime soon and even then, this birthing situation would still not be changed because changing it would violate the constitutional rights that the woman has to not have someone present at her birth against her will.

And the legislation in states in which they force the mother to notify the father in advance of abortion will never come into law because they have already been found unconstitutional in Planned Parenthood v. Casey. They struck down the spousal notice requirement, stating that it gave too much power to husbands over their wives and would worsen situations of spousal abuse.

And I doubt the supreme court, who struck down forcing notification because it give men too much power over their wives will ever agree to them being able to legally sue her for damages (for more than one reason IMHO, first of all the woman will have done nothing illegal and there is no actual damages incurred by the husband IMHO).

And grandparents getting custody for their grandchildren is sometimes good for the children but with no child if the woman chooses to have an abortion I do not see what that has to do with this issue.
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I swear that some people think that because THEY have good relationships and good husbands that everyone else must too. That is simply not the case. Some women (and some men) are in less than ideal relationships.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
What in the hell does this have to do with the OP or what we are discussing. The only reason why I brought a 15-year-old into the conversation was to show that it is unreasonable to expect the "woman" to be the one to make a "good" decision regarding sex and it's consequences.

Equal blame goes to both parties because they both participated in actions that resulted in a pregnancy.
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She is the one who will have a baby, not him, so its her responsibility to protect herself if she decides to have sex.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Henrin said:
I already covered that by saying they decide to care. The fact remains that government force imposes on the man and that is the only thing besides his own good character to care if he gets a woman pregnant.
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Well, your ideas are just not realistic in our society. Maybe 200 years ago, but not anymore. There are TOO many unplanned pregnancies to poor people who need support or will starve, the man has to support his offspring, and if he doesn't want to do that, he should become celibate because he knows damn well that having sex can and does result in pregnancy and he knows that in our society he is expected to pay for that child, whether he wants to or not, and that is because (as I've explained to you AD NAUSEUM) the burden would fall on SOCIETY.

Your ideas are JUST as unrealistic as those expressed in the "bullying" thread.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

OscarB63 said:
point being, they were still criticized for not being there. and just because he wasn't allowed doesn't keep her from throwing it in his face. under the circumstances that she could/would throw that in his face, no one there is going to know that he wasn't allowed to be present. and the more he protests, the more defensive and guilty he is going to look.
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You are just inventing stuff now...a diversion. It wouldnt come up in any conversation...only court. And he has a COURT RULING to prove why he wasnt in there.

What kind of weak guy worries about being criticized over something as lame as that? When it was completely justified and he can say so?
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

leoborn said:
She is the one who will have a baby, not him, so its her responsibility to protect herself if she decides to have sex.
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You are wrong. Check the law. BOTH parties who engaged in the creation of said child are responsible for it's wellbeing, as it SHOULD be.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
Well, your ideas are just not realistic in our society. Maybe 200 years ago, but not anymore. There are TOO many unplanned pregnancies to poor people who need support or will starve, the man has to support his offspring, and if he doesn't want to do that, he should become celibate because he knows damn well that having sex can and does result in pregnancy and he knows that in our society he is expected to pay for that child, whether he wants to or not, and that is because (as I've explained to you AD NAUSEUM) the burden would fall on SOCIETY.

Your ideas are JUST as unrealistic as those expressed in the "bullying" thread.
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Just more proof: In ChrisL's world, women have rights. Men have responsibilities.

Curse me being born into this penis-possessing no-win body.
 
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