Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?[W:78]

[Bigfoot 88]

The U.S. has already said it will not, but do you think it should?

The only concern is people might feel intimidated, but I honestly doubt that is the case.

If the U.S. supports democracy, it should recognize this vote. Granted, the U.S. government doesn't exactly have a positive view of secession I would imagine...

I support recognizing the vote. If they vote to join Russia, let them. If not, then we have to figure out what is next. I think that would lend us the moral authority to force Russia to back off.

 

[Robbie Loucks]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

I think your voting is going to be a little skewed when you have Russian soldiers with guns around you. Besides, why doesn't the US just bombard various provinces in Canada with people and make them vote to join the US, one province at a time?

 

[Bigfoot 88]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

I think your voting is going to be a little skewed when you have Russian soldiers with guns around you. Besides, why doesn't the US just bombard various provinces in Canada with people and make them vote to join the US, one province at a time?

I fail to see the analogy.

 

[Wiseone]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

The U.S. has already said it will not, but do you think it should?

The only concern is people might feel intimidated, but I honestly doubt that is the case.

If the U.S. supports democracy, it should recognize this vote. Granted, the U.S. government doesn't exactly have a positive view of secession I would imagine...

I support recognizing the vote. If they vote to join Russia, let them. If not, then we have to figure out what is next. I think that would lend us the moral authority to force Russia to back off.

This is not a democratic vote.

 

[Wiseone]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

I fail to see the analogy.

If people are being compelled under threat of force to vote a certain way, and there's no monitoring to ensure the vote is done without tampering than its not a real democratic choice.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

Would you support a state of the US, or the most strategic portion of your country, deciding to join Russia?

 

[Bigfoot 88]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

If people are being compelled under threat of force to vote a certain way, and there's no monitoring to ensure the vote is done without tampering than its not a real democratic choice.

Are they really?

The U.S. should have negotiated to get involved with the vote to make sure it met their standards.

I think it will be legitimate and Crimea will vote to secede because of their demographics and political leanings.

Interestingly, the U.S. did not support democracy when the Ukrainians deposed of their elected leader.

 

[Bigfoot 88]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

Would you support a state of the US, or the most strategic portion of your country, deciding to join Russia?

If they wanted to. I believe in the principle of secession.

 

[Wiseone]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

Are they really?

The U.S. should have negotiated to get involved with the vote to make sure it met their standards.

I think it will be legitimate and Crimea will vote to secede because of their demographics and political leanings.

Interestingly, the U.S. did not support democracy when the Ukrainians deposed of their elected leader.

Well a few points.

1) The Russians would never allow outside observers into the Crimea to watch over the election, it simply cannot be negotiated for.

2) Democracy isn't everything, just because someone is democratically elected doesn't give him free reign to do whatever he wants. The last leader of Ukraine was a man who murdered his people in the streets and stole the wealth of the country for his personal bank accounts and those of his personally connected cadre. He ran the country as a place meant to generate wealth for him and his family, one of the reasons the protests started in the first place, then he fled the country and claims to govern from outside its borders. So democratically elected or not, when you behave like that you aren't legitimate.

 

[obvious Child]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

Are they really?

The U.S. should have negotiated to get involved with the vote to make sure it met their standards.

I think it will be legitimate and Crimea will vote to secede because of their demographics and political leanings.

Interestingly, the U.S. did not support democracy when the Ukrainians deposed of their elected leader.

Answer me this:

Is this a legitimate contract, where I put a gun to your head and you sign over all your assets to me?

And what happened in Ukraine was that the president abandoned his duties leave the state without a president. The parliament, including every member of the President's party voted to remove him.

 

[NoC_T]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

The U.S. has already said it will not, but do you think it should?

The only concern is people might feel intimidated, but I honestly doubt that is the case.

If the U.S. supports democracy, it should recognize this vote. Granted, the U.S. government doesn't exactly have a positive view of secession I would imagine...

I support recognizing the vote. If they vote to join Russia, let them. If not, then we have to figure out what is next. I think that would lend us the moral authority to force Russia to back off.

Moral authority's not a fallout shelter.

Jus' sayin'.

 

[NoC_T]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

It was always too much to hope for that the US might mind its own ****ing business for once. But sure, if it comes to that, why not? 'Recognise' them, by all means. Not that there are a plethora of options here. In this instance, it's powerless to act.

 

[obvious Child]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

This is not a democratic vote.

I would support the Crimean vote if Dagestan and Chechnya are given the same right to vote for their futures.

Somehow I don't think Komrade Putin will go for that.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

I think your voting is going to be a little skewed when you have Russian soldiers with guns around you. Besides, why doesn't the US just bombard various provinces in Canada with people and make them vote to join the US, one province at a time?

Damn I like reading your posts. Keep it up. We desperately need intelligent posters interjecting logic.

 

[Robbie Loucks]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

Damn I like reading your posts. Keep it up. We desperately need intelligent posters interjecting logic.

I'm an angsty 18 year old in high school. My first sentence required very little logic and my second sentence was just my humorous side more than anything. I'm going to assume that you were being genuine with that post because you liked my post. However, keep in mind that my post in this thread was probably one of the worst I've made all day.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

I'm an angsty 18 year old in high school. My first sentence required very little logic and my second sentence was just my humorous side more than anything. I'm going to assume that you were being genuine with that post because you liked my post. However, keep in mind that my post in this thread was probably one of the worst I've made all day.

Completely sincere and honest.

Don't mistake what you feel is obvious to you as being obvious to others. The capability to perform logical thinking is a rare commodity.

And, most times, the simplest of statements can have the most profound impact in a debate.

 

[Capster78]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

If we recognize the vote to succeed from the Ukraine, it will give the green light to any country to simply peacefully invade another country with it's citizens. Could you imagine if the citizens of some of the souther states of the US voted to succeed to Mexico? And if they did, would we be outraged, or would we simply succeed our land?

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

If they wanted to. I believe in the principle of secession.

Secession does not work when there are specialized states utilizing comparative advantage. What if, for example, Florida wanted to secede and take NASA with it? What if Alaska wanted to secede and take it's oil reserves with it.

Those states were developed with the help of the rest of the nation and they would not have what they do were it not for the rest of the country. For them to "take their ball and go home", when others bought the ball, is not legit.

Crimea represents tremendous strategic importance to Ukraine. Losing that, without agreed upon compensation, is a violation of Ukraine's sovereignty.

Why can't Ukraine take everything in Crimea, all the infrastructure, and dump all of its waste on Crimea before the secession?

 

[DaveFagan]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

Secession does not work when there are specialized states utilizing comparative advantage. What if, for example, Florida wanted to secede and take NASA with it? What if Alaska wanted to secede and take it's oil reserves with it.

Those states were developed with the help of the rest of the nation and they would not have what they do were it not for the rest of the country. For them to "take their ball and go home", when others bought the ball, is not legit.

Crimea represents tremendous strategic importance to Ukraine. Losing that, without agreed upon compensation, is a violation of Ukraine's sovereignty.

Why can't Ukraine take everything in Crimea, all the infrastructure, and dump all of its waste on Crimea before the secession?

Ukraine doesn't need Crimea. They already have Chernobyl. It will become the West's dumping ground for highly radioactive waste iin the very near future. Corporate agenda? NO, the people want it.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

The ballot only offers seccession to independence or to join Russia. There is not a 'no' on the ballot, it is obviously a invalid ballot dreamed up by the Putin.

 

[joko104]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

Absolutely not nor should even be considered a democratic vote anyway. There is no democratic vote when it is held under the gun of an invading and conquering army. It'd be like asking if we should recognize an election in France during Nazi occupation.

 

[shrubnose]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

If they wanted to.

I believe in the principle of secession.

Did you ever hear of the U.S. Civil War?

Some Southern states thought that they could secede from the USA.

They lost that battle, big-time.

 

[tecoyah]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

The U.S. has already said it will not, but do you think it should?

The only concern is people might feel intimidated, but I honestly doubt that is the case.

If the U.S. supports democracy, it should recognize this vote. Granted, the U.S. government doesn't exactly have a positive view of secession I would imagine...

I support recognizing the vote. If they vote to join Russia, let them. If not, then we have to figure out what is next. I think that would lend us the moral authority to force Russia to back off.

It is obviously a controlled vote, and the outcome has already been decided.

It does not matter if we recognize it, Crimea is already Russian.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

It seems to me that this referendum violates numerous Articles of the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea

Article 1
1. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea shall be an integral part of Ukraine and it shall solve, within the powers conferred upon it by the Constitution of Ukraine, any and all matters coming within its terms of reference.

Article 2
2. In the event where the provisions of the statutory acts of the Supreme Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the acts of the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea should contradict the Constitution of Ukraine and/or Ukrainian laws, the provisions of the Constitution of Ukraine and Ukrainian laws shall prevail.

Article 28
The statutory acts of the Supreme Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea upon any and all matters regarding the powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea shall conform to the Constitution of Ukraine and Ukrainian laws.

---

There is also the matter of the Crimean port city Sevastopol. According to the Ukrainian Constitution, the city of Sevastopol is classified as an "independent city" on sovereign Ukrainian (not Crimean) land.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

Ukraine doesn't need Crimea. They already have Chernobyl. It will become the West's dumping ground for highly radioactive waste iin the very near future.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Ukraine is constructing the "Novarka" that will completely cover and permanently seal the damaged nuclear reactor at Chernobyl.