View Poll Results: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote?

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  • Yes, the U.S. should

    21 40.38%
  • No, the U.S. shouldn't

    31 59.62%
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Thread: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?[W:78]

  1. #51
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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    There's so many puppets it gets a bit confusing. lol Okay, first you say that Russia didn't invite any outside observers and but wait, they did...but...it was their puppet Crimea prime minsiter that invited OSCE, so that doesn't count. Whether or not the outside observers refused is irrelevant because the point is, Russia did invite outside observers, right?
    Not in the context of the word as I thought you meant it, when you said observers originally I thought you meant professional election observers that would ensure a fair process which obviously Russia never invited. Yes they did invite some people to observe, as in just watch, the election but I didn't realize that is what you were talking about.

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    The U.S. has already said it will not, but do you think it should?

    The only concern is people might feel intimidated, but I honestly doubt that is the case.

    If the U.S. supports democracy, it should recognize this vote. Granted, the U.S. government doesn't exactly have a positive view of secession I would imagine...

    I support recognizing the vote. If they vote to join Russia, let them. If not, then we have to figure out what is next. I think that would lend us the moral authority to force Russia to back off.
    What I see is a possible democratic process which in my mind is questionable because a bunch of Russian military troops are hanging around that area.

    It is POSSIBLE that they are just there to protect the Crimeans, but if they WEREN'T there I think this whole thing would be far less questionable.

    Also, I take exception to the part of your post which I bolded - what if this is NOT a democratic process in the works? Why the hell should we support a rigged election used to legitimize an invasion?
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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Russia did invite outside observers but they all refused because they said the election was illegal.
    If true, that sounds like some BS to me.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    The U.S. has already said it will not, but do you think it should?

    The only concern is people might feel intimidated, but I honestly doubt that is the case.

    If the U.S. supports democracy, it should recognize this vote. Granted, the U.S. government doesn't exactly have a positive view of secession I would imagine...

    I support recognizing the vote. If they vote to join Russia, let them. If not, then we have to figure out what is next. I think that would lend us the moral authority to force Russia to back off.
    With far ranging allegations of voter fraud, intimidation and the fact that quite a few people, 250k crimean tartars, didn't get thier voting cards to be able to go if they wanted to vote, you can't recognize that referendum.

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Not in the context of the word as I thought you meant it, when you said observers originally I thought you meant professional election observers that would ensure a fair process which obviously Russia never invited. Yes they did invite some people to observe, as in just watch, the election but I didn't realize that is what you were talking about.

    I don't see how you could misunderstand the context that I meant since it was exactly the same as yours....I even used your words..."outside observers". So instead of conceding the point, you're equivocating and actually trying to move the goal posts? Really? oi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Well a few points.

    1) The Russians would never allow outside observers into the Crimea to watch over the election, it simply cannot be negotiated for.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Russia did invite outside observers but they all refused because they said the election was illegal.

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Also:
    BBC News - As it happened: Crimea votes in referendum

    really, watch that 2min video.
    For crying out loud, that's outrageous.
    You couldn't vote for Crimea to stay with Ukraine. Just: 1-> go to russia ; 2 -> have crimea return to 1992 status -> which inevitably would be a 2 step process to joining russia. It's a joke.

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    If true, that sounds like some BS to me.
    If true, it's BS?

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I don't see how you could misunderstand the context that I meant since it was exactly the same as yours....I even used your words..."outside observers". So instead of conceding the point, you're equivocating and actually trying to move the goal posts? Really? oi.
    I'm not trying to move the goal posts I really thought you were talking about professional elections observes, the kind of people who would unbiasedly report if there was any abuse. I didn't think you were talking about a group of representatives from Europe's far right parties who are in no way qualified or unbiased to be a trustworthy source to report on how the election was conducted.

    I just misunderstood what you were saying, but if you think that these two groups are the same then you're way off base.

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If true, it's BS?
    If your statement is true, it sounds like some bull**** is going on.
    Education.

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm not trying to move the goal posts I really thought you were talking about professional elections observes, the kind of people who would unbiasedly report if there was any abuse. I didn't think you were talking about a group of representatives from Europe's far right parties who are in no way qualified or unbiased to be a trustworthy source to report on how the election was conducted.

    I just misunderstood what you were saying, but if you think that these two groups are the same then you're way off base.
    The OSEC is qualified to observe elections and you even posted an article stating they were invited by how did you put it...."Russian puppet of a "Prime Minister"?" So are you now trying to say that the OSEC isn't qualified and they weren't invited to observe the Crimea referendum? You do know that would be a lie, right?

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