View Poll Results: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote?

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  • Yes, the U.S. should

    21 40.38%
  • No, the U.S. shouldn't

    31 59.62%
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Thread: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?[W:78]

  1. #91
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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?[W:78

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    The U.S. has already said it will not, but do you think it should?

    The only concern is people might feel intimidated, but I honestly doubt that is the case.

    If the U.S. supports democracy, it should recognize this vote. Granted, the U.S. government doesn't exactly have a positive view of secession I would imagine...

    I support recognizing the vote. If they vote to join Russia, let them. If not, then we have to figure out what is next.
    I think that would lend us the moral authority to force Russia to back off.



    What the USA recognizes or doesn't recognize will have zero effect on the situation in Crimea.




    I don't believe that Russia is going to back off.

    Who is going to make Russia back off?

    The majority of the people (58.32%) in Crimea are ethnic Russians.

  2. #92
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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?[W:78

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    What the USA recognizes or doesn't recognize will have zero effect on the situation in Crimea.




    I don't believe that Russia is going to back off.

    Who is going to make Russia back off?

    The majority of the people (58.32%) in Crimea are ethnic Russians.
    Stalin's purge of non-Russians from Crimea was incomplete and non-Russians tend to have more children. This was a corrective action to stomp down Muslims and non-Russians before they regained the majority they had before Stalin.

    I understand your messages are that of a Stalinist, so am surprised you didn't claim that ethnic Russians (since you also adamantly believe is division of people on ethnicity) were 95% of the population of Crimea, like you claim that was the actual vote total.

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    `
    `
    Unless it can be proved, to an international tribunal, that there was undue and flagrant abuses which affected the vote, we as a nation, should support the vox populi and recognize the Crimean vote as it stands.
    Three cheers for genocide and the white race! White people of the world need to keep sticking together like you say.

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Three cheers for genocide and the white race! White people of the world need to keep sticking together like you say.
    I think I made myself quite clear. Given the circumstances, unless a legal entity files a world court suit, and can prove there were crimes associated with the voting, the US, a constitutional republic, should recognize the will of the Crimean voter.

  5. #95
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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Then why don't you just post that Crimea was never part of the Ukraine and make up anything else for your anti-Ukraine messages? Claim Ukraine was mass slaughtering Crimeans?

    The White House claims Russia provided pre-marked ballots for the counting and that the election was a fraud. You claim the results of the election are accurate, despite they numbers also contradict past elections on the issue.

    If you claim the 95% vote result is accurate then you are also claiming the Obama White House is lying.
    Personally, I think they're all lying.
    Education.

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  6. #96
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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    It seems to me that this referendum violates numerous Articles of the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea

    Article 1
    1. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea shall be an integral part of Ukraine and it shall solve, within the powers conferred upon it by the Constitution of Ukraine, any and all matters coming within its terms of reference.

    Article 2
    2. In the event where the provisions of the statutory acts of the Supreme Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the acts of the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea should contradict the Constitution of Ukraine and/or Ukrainian laws, the provisions of the Constitution of Ukraine and Ukrainian laws shall prevail.

    Article 28
    The statutory acts of the Supreme Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea upon any and all matters regarding the powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea shall conform to the Constitution of Ukraine and Ukrainian laws.


    There is also the matter of the Crimean port city Sevastopol. According to the Ukrainian Constitution, the city of Sevastopol is classified as an "independent city" on sovereign Ukrainian (not Crimean) land.
    With the Crimean Republic being a constituent part of the Ukraine and the Ukraine no longer have a Constitution since the overthrow of the constitutionally elected President, it seems to me that any argument which uses appeals to Constitution becomes invalid.

  7. #97
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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Yes, I was responding to Wiseone's claim that Russia wouldn't allow any "outside observers" whatsoever. Just to be clear, I said, "outside observers" not "international observers."
    More obfuscation. You know that's what he meant; the terms are used interchangeably.
    In your astute observations, MadLib...did you happen to notice if Wiseman provided any evidence to support his claim that Russia wouldn't allow any "outside observers" in Crimea?
    Because, other than Russian state propaganda, there is no evidence to suggest that Russia allowed qualified observers.
    And I pointed out that they did and I was right.
    'Themselves" is the qualifying word in that statement. You'll get no argument from me that the Crimean regional government is Putin's puppet, but that's still Crimea inviting them, not Russia.
    No, as Wiseman's link pointed out, it was Crimea that didn't have the authority to invite them to observe. Geezus, you don't even know what the issue is and yet here you are pretending to be the grand jury. Perhaps you should've just let well enough alone, Madlib.
    Same difference. Either way, that does not count as a legitimate invitation.
    Wiseone first said that Russia wouldn't allow ANY outside observers in Crimea and that is what I responded to. He didn't quantify that they had to be "professional' or "qualified" until well after he put his foot in his mouth.
    It's obvious that he didn't mean any random idiot who could be invited to join and it would count as an "outside observer."
    He also just assumed the EU far right nationalist parties weren't qualified to be election observers when in fact political parties often do have their own observers and the ones that Putin asked are recognized by the EU as a legitmate political party with all the qualifications neccessary to observe an election just as any other recognized political party would. [/B]
    Since when did EU political parties have the qualifications to observe an election, especially one that takes place outside of the Eurozone?
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

  8. #98
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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    More obfuscation. You know that's what he meant; the terms are used interchangeably.

    Because, other than Russian state propaganda, there is no evidence to suggest that Russia allowed qualified observers.

    'Themselves" is the qualifying word in that statement. You'll get no argument from me that the Crimean regional government is Putin's puppet, but that's still Crimea inviting them, not Russia.

    Same difference. Either way, that does not count as a legitimate invitation.

    It's obvious that he didn't mean any random idiot who could be invited to join and it would count as an "outside observer."

    Since when did EU political parties have the qualifications to observe an election, especially one that takes place outside of the Eurozone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Well a few points.

    1) The Russians would never allow outside observers into the Crimea to watch over the election, it simply cannot be negotiated for....

    The Russians invited outside observers to monitor the Crimea election.....



    NBC: "....There are 135 independent observers from 23 countries in Crimea to monitor the referendum vote scheduled for Sunday, in which citizens will decide whether to join Russia or remain an autonomous region in Ukraine.....
    Referendum Monitor Criticizes U.S. Involvement in Crimea - NBC News


    Reuters: Mar. 15 - International monitors invited by Russia arrive in Crimea to observe Sunday's referendum to join Russia. Sarah Toms reports...
    International observers arrive for Crimea referendum | Video | Reuters.com


    EuroNews: "...Russia and Crimea’s pro-Russian parliament have both backed election monitors but the OSCE does not plan to send any, judging Sunday’s referendum illegal...."
    http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/15/t...sce-observers/


    Just thought you should know.
    Last edited by Moot; 03-19-14 at 09:45 PM.

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The Russians invited outside observers to monitor the Crimea election.....



    NBC: "....There are 135 independent observers from 23 countries in Crimea to monitor the referendum vote scheduled for Sunday, in which citizens will decide whether to join Russia or remain an autonomous region in Ukraine.....
    Referendum Monitor Criticizes U.S. Involvement in Crimea - NBC News


    Reuters: Mar. 15 - International monitors invited by Russia arrive in Crimea to observe Sunday's referendum to join Russia. Sarah Toms reports...
    International observers arrive for Crimea referendum | Video | Reuters.com


    EuroNews: "...Russia and Crimea’s pro-Russian parliament have both backed election monitors but the OSCE does not plan to send any, judging Sunday’s referendum illegal...."
    http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/15/t...sce-observers/


    Just thought you should know.
    When I said observers, I meant people who were actually professionals at this kind of work and who come in without bias toward the outcome. I did not mean folks like the guy in your first link where he quite clearly supports Russia move here and thinks that Crimea should be part of Russia. I did not mean guys like the person in your second link where he literally says the majority of Crimeans will support Russia and that they need to send Kiev a message. And I didn't mean your third link where there's been a lot of conflicting information about whether the OSCE was invited or not and if they were invited why were they stopped at the border?

    OSCE observers barred from entering Crimea:Polish minister | Reuters

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    Re: Should the U.S. recognize the Crimean vote on secession/annexation tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The Russians invited outside observers to monitor the Crimea election.....



    NBC: "....There are 135 independent observers from 23 countries in Crimea to monitor the referendum vote scheduled for Sunday, in which citizens will decide whether to join Russia or remain an autonomous region in Ukraine.....
    Referendum Monitor Criticizes U.S. Involvement in Crimea - NBC News


    Reuters: Mar. 15 - International monitors invited by Russia arrive in Crimea to observe Sunday's referendum to join Russia. Sarah Toms reports...
    International observers arrive for Crimea referendum | Video | Reuters.com


    EuroNews: "...Russia and Crimea’s pro-Russian parliament have both backed election monitors but the OSCE does not plan to send any, judging Sunday’s referendum illegal...."
    http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/15/t...sce-observers/


    Just thought you should know.
    When I said observers, I meant people who were actually professionals at this kind of work and who come in without bias toward the outcome. I did not mean folks like the guy in your first link where he quite clearly supports Russia move here and thinks that Crimea should be part of Russia. I did not mean guys like the person in your second link where he literally says the majority of Crimeans will support Russia and that they need to send Kiev a message. And I didn't mean your third link where there's been a lot of conflicting information about whether the OSCE was invited or not and if they were invited why were they stopped at the border?

    OSCE observers barred from entering Crimea:Polish minister | Reuters

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