View Poll Results: what's the best solution for the Crimean crisis?

Voters
36. You may not vote on this poll
  • Crimea joins Russia.

    12 33.33%
  • All russians in Crimea pack their stuff and leave. Border changes intolerable in the 21c.

    6 16.67%
  • All stays as it is.

    3 8.33%
  • It's a dead end.

    0 0%
  • Start WWIII now!

    1 2.78%
  • I don't know

    4 11.11%
  • Other

    10 27.78%
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 30 of 30

Thread: Crimea - what's the best solution?

  1. #21
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:43 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,788

    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    ...send in the military.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #22
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,586
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Crimea will become part of Russia. It's a done deal. Russian troops are on the ground in tens of thousands. Russian troops control all areas of Crimea, and have pinned Ukrainian troops inside their barracks.

    The search for solutions was irrelevant before it ever began. The moment Putin took over the peninsula, Crimea became Russian territory.

    The only question now is how much of the Ukraine is Russian going to invade and commandeer? Some of it, all of it? Because Crimea is gone, period.

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where I am now
    Last Seen
    09-11-17 @ 03:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,386

    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    I just want the people of the Crimea to decide what they want...period.

  4. #24
    Sage
    DDD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Republic of Dardania
    Last Seen
    05-06-17 @ 06:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,173

    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Historical Ukrainian city? What city would that be? Until the Soviet Union gave it to the communist Soviet state of Ukraine, the Crimea was Russian property since the first Crimean war (if I am not mistaken) since the days of the Charge of the Light brigade until 1954. Before 1954 I am not sure that Crimea ever was a part of the Ukraine.

    Ukrainians are not native to Crimea, the Tatar people are, between 1441 and 1853 it was the a Tatar Khanate and after that it was part of the Ottoman Empire.
    Interesting. I like History. Sources please?

    Serious ones, not say Wiki or Blogs for example!
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  5. #25
    Sage
    Peter King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    14,014

    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Interesting. I like History. Sources please?

    Serious ones, not say Wiki or Blogs for example!
    khanate of the Crimea

    khanate of the Crimea (historical state, Ukraine) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

    History of Crimea

    Crimea (republic, Ukraine) :: History -- Encyclopedia Britannica

    For example, but the wikipedia pages also have most of this information, among others.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  6. #26
    Sage
    DDD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Republic of Dardania
    Last Seen
    05-06-17 @ 06:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,173

    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    khanate of the Crimea

    khanate of the Crimea (historical state, Ukraine) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

    History of Crimea

    Crimea (republic, Ukraine) :: History -- Encyclopedia Britannica

    For example, but the wikipedia pages also have most of this information, among others.
    Interesting indeed. Says Greeks took it from Cimmerians (or rather were under the Greek influence), then Romans took Crimea, then an unsuccessful effort was made by Kievan Rus only in 10th century, then came the Mongolian Godlen Hordes (Tattars), and the Ottoman Empire, whom then fell to Russia in wars in 18-19th century.

    Tatars wanted independence of Crimea since 1917, where it became autonomous in 1921. Stalin perished many Tatars among other minorities where the remaining Tatars were moved by force to Siberia and Central Asia. Russians then gave Crimea to Ukraine in 1954 to commemorate a Pereyaslav Agreement according to Britannica.

    After Stalin and Kruschchev fell the deported minorities were allowed back except for Tatars. They got back after 1990's when the Soviet Union fell in numbers of 300,000 at 21st century.

    It was autonomous during the Soviet Union in 1991 but fell to Ukraine when the Soviet Union collapsed. It is a largely made of Russian civilians there now whom wanted independence from Ukraine since 1994! But Russia and Ukraine made a "Treaty of Friendship" in 1997 when Crimea was left to Ukrainians once more. The rest is known.

    This brings new insight as to who has claims in Crimea. Tatars lived longer there but are a minority now. Suppose if they are not discriminated as a minority there the Russians could have it since they are a majority and wanted independence and were autonomous several times in History then.

    But I was only differentiating Dardania with Crimea in my original post. Thought Ukrainians were natives like we were. Guess I was wrong.

    The Huffington post makes clear distinctions between Crimea and Dardania:

    Crimea Is Not Kosovo*|*David L. Phillips

    One of the issues is that there was an international presence to secure the issue of minorities in Dardania. Russia expelled foreign members and it is now left to them to assure the right of Tatar minorities without international observation that they do so.

    Who believes that Russians would watch over Tatar and other minorities in Crimea?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  7. #27
    Sage
    DDD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Republic of Dardania
    Last Seen
    05-06-17 @ 06:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,173

    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    On another development I saw in my local news that there are some talks of trading recognitions. Yes Crimea did declare independence but that is a worthless piece of paper if other countries do not recognize it.

    Currently it is refused to be recognized:

    Obama refuses to recognize a Russian Crimea. But is secession illegal? (+video) - CSMonitor.com

    Canada says won't recognize Crimea referendum | GlobalPost

    But what I saw in my local news is that perhaps recognitions could be traded. I saw Merkel and Putin with a happy face and the narrator of our local news said that: Crimea may be recognized if Russia recognizes Dardania (see signature where Dardania is).

    I cannot find such links online today. The best I have is this:

    Blic Online | Putin not to recognize Kosovo because of Crimea

    So perhaps the best solution to Crimea is to trade recognitions then. What do you say about this?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  8. #28
    Invictus


    Rogue Valley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,076

    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Firstly, the present Crimean (pro-Russian) authorities have not provided enough time for Crimean voters to acquire and digest important information. There are vast differences between aspects of Ukrainian law and Russian law that will negatively impact people and business. About the only population segment that could come out ahead by joining Russia are pensioners. For example, do young men know that military conscription is mandatory in Russia but only voluntary in Ukraine? Do the people understand that they will have far fewer rights under Russian criminal law?

    Secondly, communication links between Ukraine and Crimea have been severed. The only television stations allowed to broadcast in Crimea now are Russian. Phone and internet links to Ukraine have also been severed. The entrance to the Crimean peninsula at Armyansk is now controlled by Russian security/military forces and former Berkut police who fled Kiev. Controls on who may enter are very strict. International observers have been turned away and this border area is now laced with minefields. The Crimean parliament building is guarded by Russian forces and only those approved by the new (Russian installed) Prime Minister can enter. Opposition lawmakers are excluded. Ergo - the "free and fair" referendum - is a tightly controlled exercise.

    Thirdly, the Crimean referendum set for 16 March 2014 is a "stacked deck". There are two questions on the referendum:

    1) Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?
    2) Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?

    Although it appears that ticking #2 is a vote to remain allied with Ukraine, this is not the case. The 1992 Constitution (abolished) allowed the Crimean Rada (parliament) to make this decision for the people. In reality then, this is just a convoluted way of voting for option #1 and - although a slightly longer course - results in the same outcome as option #1.

    No boxes ticked will be considered a spoiled ballot as will both boxes ticked. Thus, there is no meaningful way that the referendum can fail to achieve a specific outcome.

  9. #29
    Sage
    DDD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Republic of Dardania
    Last Seen
    05-06-17 @ 06:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,173

    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Firstly, the present Crimean (pro-Russian) authorities have not provided enough time for Crimean voters to acquire and digest important information. There are vast differences between aspects of Ukrainian law and Russian law that will negatively impact people and business. About the only population segment that could come out ahead by joining Russia are pensioners. For example, do young men know that military conscription is mandatory in Russia but only voluntary in Ukraine? Do the people understand that they will have far fewer rights under Russian criminal law?

    Secondly, communication links between Ukraine and Crimea have been severed. The only television stations allowed to broadcast in Crimea now are Russian. Phone and internet links to Ukraine have also been severed. The entrance to the Crimean peninsula at Armyansk is now controlled by Russian security/military forces and former Berkut police who fled Kiev. Controls on who may enter are very strict. International observers have been turned away and this border area is now laced with minefields. The Crimean parliament building is guarded by Russian forces and only those approved by the new (Russian installed) Prime Minister can enter. Opposition lawmakers are excluded. Ergo - the "free and fair" referendum - is a tightly controlled exercise.

    Thirdly, the Crimean referendum set for 16 March 2014 is a "stacked deck". There are two questions on the referendum:

    1) Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?
    2) Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?

    Although it appears that ticking #2 is a vote to remain allied with Ukraine, this is not the case. The 1992 Constitution (abolished) allowed the Crimean Rada (parliament) to make this decision for the people. In reality then, this is just a convoluted way of voting for option #1 and - although a slightly longer course - results in the same outcome as option #1.

    No boxes ticked will be considered a spoiled ballot as will both boxes ticked. Thus, there is no meaningful way that the referendum can fail to achieve a specific outcome.
    Wow! Interesting insights! Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  10. #30
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 03:32 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    With the Crimea occupied by an invading Russian army, talk of an election is absurd. It's like having a vote in France after conquered by the Germans.

    There are 2 choices:

    1. Do you surrender to the Russian army?

    2. Do you refuse to surrender to Russia?

    Vote.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •