View Poll Results: what's the best solution for the Crimean crisis?

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  • Crimea joins Russia.

    12 33.33%
  • All russians in Crimea pack their stuff and leave. Border changes intolerable in the 21c.

    6 16.67%
  • All stays as it is.

    3 8.33%
  • It's a dead end.

    0 0%
  • Start WWIII now!

    1 2.78%
  • I don't know

    4 11.11%
  • Other

    10 27.78%
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Thread: Crimea - what's the best solution?

  1. #11
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    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    The decision about its future should be Crimea's alone. If its people want to be "incorporated," fine. If Putin is going to just take it anyway, that's not.

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    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    The ideal solution?

    Putin and Kiev get at the table and agree to let an international troop on Crimea, replacing the Russian soldiers which retreat back to their barracks on their naval base. Under surveillance of this international troops, a genuine, free referendum is held about the future of Crimea, and both Russia and Kiev agree to respect it.
    Yeah... like that's gonna happen.

    I am really confused what the OP meant by "best" too. Best for whom? And is the "best" even possible?

    Best for Crimea? well even without the russian meddling into Crimea, most crimeans, at least 60%, don't want to stay with Ukraine. I don't know how that translates into wanting to be with Russia, but it certainly means that if they want to be independent from Ukraine, by the rights of self-determination established in Europe in the 1800, they have that right.
    But is that best for Ukraine? I don't know...

    So "best" is a pretty juvenile way to look at things.

    But you proposed the ideal situation, I'll propose a realistic one.

    Crimea will vote for independence from Ukraine and become, in some manner, part of the Russian Federation. Either fully part of it, or just a modern version of a vassal state.
    Ukraine will cut it's losses and try and keep eastern Ukraine under control and not let another "crimea" happen there.
    Some nations will recognize Crimea in the new capacity, some won't. A sort of a Kosovo situation but with a much larger and scarier "Serbia".
    The EU will bailout, maybe twice, Ukraine, and swiftly begin ascension program so that Ukraine will be "out of the reach" of russian influences. Moldavia may also be put on the fast track there (expect problems here too). By this time next year, we'll have an EU army, a real one and at new drone programs for R&D. Also, all the countries will start paying more attention to renewable energies and start increasing liquid gas imports from the USA and brazil to offset the reduction in natural gas from Russia.

    This whole Crimea thing has until the end of the month to explode. Soon there's a national referendum of the people, not the BS decision that lawmakers in the regional parliament of Crimea made. And that referendum will vindicate the decision for independence and at that point, we'll be in clear. Ukraine will shut it's mouth and accept that because it has no choice... and evacuate it's forces from Crimea and this whole very tense situation will be a bit less tense. But until then, there are 1000 different ways this can go wrong.

  3. #13
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    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    The part of me that doesn't give a **** about International Relations wants to advocate placing a giant dome over Ukraine...kinda like in that one Stephen King novel.
    ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)

  4. #14
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    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Crimean referendum, 2014 | Wikipedia

    So, the crisis in Crimea goes on (with the referendum scheduled for the 16-th of March, 2014), but what's the best solution for it? Take your shot.
    The ideal? Russian troops withdraw from the Crimea, national elections are held in May, we give surprise NATO accession to Ukraine and airlift troops into the country and set up signals and electronic intelligence stations along the frontier just to mess with them. We honor the Sevastopol lease but put a NATO facility adjacent to it. Establish similar bases in Georgia and Azerbaijan and never let them cross their former frontiers again. When Russia is a democratic power we revisit the issue.

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    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Tha The best solution would be to isolate Russia economically until the oligarchs remove Putin or force him to withdraw his army. Otherwise, he'll just keep pulling this maneuver in an effort to acquire the resources and population to stop Russia from declining into a regional power, possibly gaining the confidence to attack NATO nations. Trade wars are the new form of conflict in the 21st century. That said, the United States launching sanctions against Russia by itself is in the same vein of idiosyncratic policies as the Iraq War. Russia isn't (or shouldn't) be our enemy anymore, and it isn't worth making them one unless the European countries
    make it worth our while.

    Russia, whether a problem or an opportunity, is mostly for the European Union.

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    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Otherwise, he'll just keep pulling this maneuver in an effort to acquire the resources and population to stop Russia from declining into a regional power, possibly gaining the confidence to attack NATO nations.
    Why would Russia attack NATO countries? Russia has the biggest land on the planet + decreasing population. They will have troubles just maintaining that vast land, so why would they want more land?
    If we are talking self defence (Russia attacked->Russia attacks back), that's another story.

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    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Why would Russia attack NATO countries? Russia has the biggest land on the planet + decreasing population. They will have troubles just maintaining that vast land, so why would they want more land?
    If we are talking self defence (Russia attacked->Russia attacks back), that's another story.
    They want additional resources, population, and infrastructure, either through annexation or through strategic partnerships. To project greater economic and military might and exert more control over human development in the decades and centuries to come. "More land" is just part of the package.

    Only a limited amount of foreign investment can go out of (and come into) a given country at a given time, so when eastern countries (like Poland) prefer to form strategic and economic partnerships with the West (rather than Russia), it represents lost wealth and political/military influence.

    Russia itself could normalize and "join" the West, but that would entail economic and cultural compromises it isn't prepared to make, not when (in Putin's view) he can still make a push for remaining a superpower on the level of the United States, the European Union, and China, not a regional power like Brazil.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-13-14 at 05:57 PM.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    The best things is for them to become an autonomous country names Crimea which can, after 3 years decide if they want to join Russia, remain an independent country or rejoin Ukraine.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    In one perspective there is the Russian immigration and now this occupation of Ukrainian historical city. In this perspective it is incredibly unjust for a bully nation to get what it wants by force without the slightest consideration about the host nation, as well as international community, and change borders by force.

    On another perspective the majority of the people are Russian. On this grounds we won our independence from a brutal oppressive Milosevic system to begin with (more than 95% Albanians live in Dardania). Further, as it may be seen on my signature we in turn will ask for a referendum to join back to Albania as it was prior to Ottoman era retreat in 19th century. So cannot really be hypocritical here.

    The difference between Crimea and Dardania is that we are natives to here and Russians are not natives to Crimea, Ukrainians are. Is this enough to start WW3? No! Is it annoying for a bully to get its way by force and in spite? Hell YES!!
    Historical Ukrainian city? What city would that be? Until the Soviet Union gave it to the communist Soviet state of Ukraine, the Crimea was Russian property since the first Crimean war (if I am not mistaken) since the days of the Charge of the Light brigade until 1954. Before 1954 I am not sure that Crimea ever was a part of the Ukraine.

    Ukrainians are not native to Crimea, the Tatar people are, between 1441 and 1853 it was the a Tatar Khanate and after that it was part of the Ottoman Empire.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Crimea - what's the best solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    The ideal solution?

    Putin and Kiev get at the table and agree to let an international troop on Crimea, replacing the Russian soldiers which retreat back to their barracks on their naval base. Under surveillance of this international troops, a genuine, free referendum is held about the future of Crimea, and both Russia and Kiev agree to respect it.
    Damn, you just said what I meant to say. The only other aspect I wanted was to disband the paramilitaries and militias.
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