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Would you have played knockout as a teenager because of peer pressure

I'm going to buck the trend here and say No, there is NOT more violence today than there was in, say the 1970s and early 80s. Not in general.

I grew up in that period. Teenage boys and young men fought CONSTANTLY. At least, in my area they did. By the time I was 18 I couldn't count how many fights I'd been in, and I'd seen people knifed, and been on the wrong end of a couple pistols in the hands of hostile persons.

Today, by contrast, real fights among young males seem relatively rare.

Now there IS a difference...

Back then, we still had some remnants of the Code Duello and old-school honor. Generally you faced your enemy and let him know you were coming for him; sucker punching was frowned on. Sometimes weapons were involved, but there was a reluctance to kill... knives were usually used to cut not stab, and guns were usually pointed and not fired. One-on-one was the rule, gang beatdowns were mostly frowned on.

When I say "frowned on" I mean other guys might take it out of your hide.

These days, it seems that violence is more rare but more explosive, and that ambush attacks, multiple attackers and weapons are more typical, and that the reluctance to kill that I'd mentioned has faded.

But statistically, violence in the US is down from a high in the 70s. The 24/7 news hype makes it seem worse than it really is.

Good morning, Goshin. :2wave:

Great post! "Ganging up" on one person is cowardly! In the past, if you had a beef with someone, you handled it one on one. Women might have catfights, but it's usually of the verbal kind, and everyone doesn't usually jump in, unless it becomes physical, then you try to separate them. To attack someone from behind has always been wrong and gutless, and shows what kind of loser you are. And now it's considered "fun" by some to attack and hurt or kill a stranger? WTH is wrong with these people?
 
Additionally, I think that one part of a child's development involves watching it's parents/guardians interact with each other. This would obviously not happen as much as much if only one parent is involved.

That isn't a necessary part though. That can be learned from other places. Although it may be a good thing to have, even important for them to learn somehow, if it were absolutely necessary then those who came from single parent homes (being single parents for whatever reason) would never be able to develop healthy relationships with others, interact well with others that they are in relationships with or want to be in relationships with.

I hate the "all or nothing" stance many want to take when it comes to what is best for raising children. Children, people are not all alike. Even children do not all need the exact same things when it comes to how they are raised.
 
From what I've seen it REALLY is important for boys to have a male role model in their life, father or not. There's a certain point where they start establishing their gender identity and REALLY need that positive male role model to show them the way.

But I'll grant that no father might be better than some of the crappy fathers I've seen in recent years...

I agree that all children need some role models in their lives of both sexes/genders, just not that those have to be parents. Many boys raised by only women (whether just their mothers or their mothers and female relatives or even two mothers) grow into very well adjusted men, who are very much male.
 
A combination of factors, but not all of them applicable to all these kids who pull this crap.

Ok. I'll leave it at that then.
 
I'm going to buck the trend here and say No, there is NOT more violence today than there was in, say the 1970s and early 80s. Not in general.

I grew up in that period. Teenage boys and young men fought CONSTANTLY. At least, in my area they did. By the time I was 18 I couldn't count how many fights I'd been in, and I'd seen people knifed, and been on the wrong end of a couple pistols in the hands of hostile persons.

Today, by contrast, real fights among young males seem relatively rare.

Now there IS a difference...

Back then, we still had some remnants of the Code Duello and old-school honor. Generally you faced your enemy and let him know you were coming for him; sucker punching was frowned on. Sometimes weapons were involved, but there was a reluctance to kill... knives were usually used to cut not stab, and guns were usually pointed and not fired. One-on-one was the rule, gang beatdowns were mostly frowned on.

When I say "frowned on" I mean other guys might take it out of your hide.

These days, it seems that violence is more rare but more explosive, and that ambush attacks, multiple attackers and weapons are more typical, and that the reluctance to kill that I'd mentioned has faded.

But statistically, violence in the US is down from a high in the 70s. The 24/7 news hype makes it seem worse than it really is.

I don't know about that. Of course I was from a small city of around 50,000 people, but still. The type of people that where shooting and stabbing people were older, almost all ex convicts. People right out of high school weren't doing that type of stuff. Not only that, but I think the rise of people like Rudy Giuliani demonstrates that there was a rise in violence since the 70s.

Just my take.
 
And you are trying to reduce the role of one parent to their gender, as many try to do.

No I'm not, but if you are trying to put forward the notion that gender has nothing to do with parenting, then I disagree with you in the strongest terms.

Parents are not defined or a necessity based on their gender, but rather what they bring to the raising of a child.
And I say to you, that part of what they bring has to do with their gender. My mother used to put me on her lap, hug, kiss and comfort me in a way that ONLY A MOTHER COULD. MY FATHER JUST COULD NOT DO IT LIKE THAT.

My mother was very, very beautiful. But she was a tomboy when she was young, but I can remember her throwing the football with me. But she couldn't do it like my father, who had played football in college and coached football. And especially as I got older and much stronger, my mother just couldn't do it. My father could. She could not run with me. My father could. My father would take me to football games, he knew the coaches, many of the former players, he introduced me around. My mother just didn't have those kinds of relationships to do those types of things.

I guarantee you that there is nothing that your father brought to raising you that was only because of his gender. It was because he is who he is. His gender may be part of that, but it was not a vital part of that.

And I guarantee you are wrong. It was a vital part. That's not to say that my mother could not have done a good job raising me without my father, but it would have been substantially different. I guarantee it.

I turned out well, as did my siblings, and our father had very little to do with that fact, despite the fact that my parents were married and living together for all of my childhood.

Good for you. I turned out the way I dd because I had a strong FEMALE mother and a strong MALE father.
 
I don't know about that. Of course I was from a small city of around 50,000 people, but still. The type of people that where shooting and stabbing people were older, almost all ex convicts. People right out of high school weren't doing that type of stuff. Not only that, but I think the rise of people like Rudy Giuliani demonstrates that there was a rise in violence since the 70s.

Just my take.


I'm from an area smaller and more rural than yours. It is still abnormally violent, but not to the widespread degree as the 70s.


FBI stats do not indicate a rise in crime since the 70s nationwide, but a definite and substantial drop. Have a look.
 
No way. Not only have I always been against violence, but I don't think I ever succumbed to peer pressure. In fact, I used to call people out when they seemed to be. Didn't endear me to some folks, but kept my integrity.

If you never succumbed to peer pressure you are a rare one. Frankly, I find it hard to believe, no offense.
 
No I'm not, but if you are trying to put forward the notion that gender has nothing to do with parenting, then I disagree with you in the strongest terms.

Anyone even slightly aware of the subject should know that men and women do not raise children the same. The whole idea that gender doesn't matter to parenting is like this weird exception where gender differences plays no part at all. It's not only obviously wrong, but clearly pushed forward for political reasons.

Off topic, but is anyone else noticing the top bar in the your message window is missing?
 
I'm from an area smaller and more rural than yours. It is still abnormally violent, but not to the widespread degree as the 70s.


FBI stats do not indicate a rise in crime since the 70s nationwide, but a definite and substantial drop. Have a look.

Well, my response is that there was a reason Giuliani came to power. As far as I can tell it was because people felt crime was getting out of hand. So maybe different areas experience things different ways.
 
Anyone even slightly aware of the subject should know that men and women do not raise children the same. The whole idea that gender doesn't matter to parenting is like this weird exception where gender differences plays no part at all. It's not only obviously wrong, but clearly pushed forward for political reasons.

Yeah, I think this stuff stems from an effort, by some, to create this genderless society. It's not going to happen.
 
Well, my response is that there was a reason Giuliani came to power. As far as I can tell it was because people felt crime was getting out of hand. So maybe different areas experience things different ways.


NYC had a crime problem when Giuliani came to power, yes. Still, nationwide violent crime has been down a great deal since the 70s, per FBI stats. Individual areas may vary.
 
No I'm not, but if you are trying to put forward the notion that gender has nothing to do with parenting, then I disagree with you in the strongest terms.


And I say to you, that part of what they bring has to do with their gender. My mother used to put me on her lap, hug, kiss and comfort me in a way that ONLY A MOTHER COULD. MY FATHER JUST COULD NOT DO IT LIKE THAT.

My mother was very, very beautiful. But she was a tomboy when she was young, but I can remember her throwing the football with me. But she couldn't do it like my father, who had played football in college and coached football. And especially as I got older and much stronger, my mother just couldn't do it. My father could. She could not run with me. My father could. My father would take me to football games, he knew the coaches, many of the former players, he introduced me around. My mother just didn't have those kinds of relationships to do those types of things.



And I guarantee you are wrong. It was a vital part. That's not to say that my mother could not have done a good job raising me without my father, but it would have been substantially different. I guarantee it.



Good for you. I turned out the way I dd because I had a strong FEMALE mother and a strong MALE father.

You cannot prove that only a mother could kiss and comfort you a certain way or only a father could provide a certain type of guidance for you. That is not how things work. Every person is different in this world, and our personalities are not based on our genders.
 
Anyone even slightly aware of the subject should know that men and women do not raise children the same. The whole idea that gender doesn't matter to parenting is like this weird exception where gender differences plays no part at all. It's not only obviously wrong, but clearly pushed forward for political reasons.

Off topic, but is anyone else noticing the top bar in the your message window is missing?

And children should not all be raised the same anyway. Personally I like a lot of diversity in our world.
 
NYC had a crime problem when Giuliani came to power, yes. Still, nationwide violent crime has been down a great deal since the 70s, per FBI stats. Individual areas may vary.

Fair enough. I'm not going to get into researching it. I know for sure, I stopped doing that whole club thing because it seemed to me like people were getting more and more prone to violence. Actually you don't even have to be going out anymore. A little while ago, two guys started shooting at each other at a community college out here in the suburban area where I live. Really didn't expect something like that to happen there.
 
You cannot prove that only a mother could kiss and comfort you a certain way or only a father could provide a certain type of guidance for you. That is not how things work. Every person is different in this world, and our personalities are not based on our genders.



The bell curve... there are less and less common extremes on both ends, but the bulk place somewhere in the middle.

Our personalities are not utterly dependent on gender no... but they are most assuredly affected by gender, not only culturally but also biologically and by hormonal effects on the brain and body.

There are exceptions, but on the whole the majority of men and women are different, and approach parenting in different ways.





There's a reason why almost everyone knows what this means, and most laugh...



momsees.jpg
 
Fair enough. I'm not going to get into researching it. I know for sure, I stopped doing that whole club thing because it seemed to me like people were getting more and more prone to violence. Actually you don't even have to be going out anymore. A little while ago, two guys started shooting at each other at a community college out here in the suburban area where I live. Really didn't expect something like that to happen there.


You could easily be experiencing a *local* upswing in violence, regardless of national trends... or there could be a national upswing in progress that hasn't gone on long enough yet to show in statistics. :shrug: Who knows.
 
You cannot prove that only a mother could kiss and comfort you a certain way or only a father could provide a certain type of guidance for you.
And you can't prove that my father could do it like my mother, because you are not me.

That is not how things work.

You can try to pontificate as if you know how things work, and I need you to tell me how they do. But if you think you are going to make a genderless society, you are living in fantasy land.

Every person is different in this world, and our personalities are not based on our genders.

Yep, every person is different in this world. And a person's gender has a large effect on their behavior and their personality.
 
And you can't prove that my father could do it like my mother, because you are not me.

You can try to pontificate as if you know how things work, and I need you to tell me how they do. But if you think you are going to make a genderless society, you are living in fantasy land.

Yep, every person is different in this world. And a person's gender has a large effect on their behavior and their personality.

You miss the point. You are trying to apply one set of gender qualities that you saw in your parents to every person of that gender. I did not say that you couldn't prove it about your father, but rather fathers in general or your mother but rather mothers in general. Not all women are caring or supportive or willing to give kisses, but there are men who are that way. And not all fathers are willing to discipline or give guidance or be strong role models, while many women are.
 
And children should not all be raised the same anyway. Personally I like a lot of diversity in our world.

Diversity is vastly overrated in todays society. There is evidence to suggest that fathers provide what a mother does or a mother provides what a father does. Genders does play a part in how people parent their children and what they provide to the child. It has been known for a very very long time that women are the caregivers of the world, and you can not only see this in their parenting, but also in how they handle themselves in all walks of life, and yes, that includes politics. A great man once said that women are made to be the nurses and teachers of the world, and I see nothing that challenges his wisdom.
 
The bell curve... there are less and less common extremes on both ends, but the bulk place somewhere in the middle.

Our personalities are not utterly dependent on gender no... but they are most assuredly affected by gender, not only culturally but also biologically and by hormonal effects on the brain and body.

There are exceptions, but on the whole the majority of men and women are different, and approach parenting in different ways.





There's a reason why almost everyone knows what this means, and most laugh...

View attachment 67163170

And we do not raise children based on a bell curve. People are not good parents based on qualities found on a bell curve.

As for that picture, I would say that is a stereotype. I am more likely to be the one throwing my child in the air and my husband being paranoid. (Seriously, my husband would protect our children from ever going out of the house if he could. I got talked to about taking them into crowds til they were about 2 years old. Me on the other hand, I'm all about taking some minor risks with them, such as exposing them to people or carrying them on my shoulders, even now with the youngest being 4.)
 
You miss the point. You are trying to apply one set of gender qualities that you saw in your parents to every person of that gender. I did not say that you couldn't prove it about your father, but rather fathers in general or your mother but rather mothers in general. Not all women are caring or supportive or willing to give kisses, but there are men who are that way. And not all fathers are willing to discipline or give guidance or be strong role models, while many women are.

All rules have expectations to it, but they are rules for a reason none the less.
 
Diversity is vastly overrated in todays society. There is evidence to suggest that fathers provide what a mother does or a mother provides what a father does. Genders does play a part in how people parent their children and what they provide to the child. It has been known for a very very long time that women are the caregivers of the world, and you can not only see this in their parenting, but also in how they handle themselves in all walks of life, and yes, that includes politics. A great man once said that women are made to be the nurses and teachers of the world, and I see nothing that challenges his wisdom.

Diversity is a good thing, not overrated. There is plenty of evidence that fathers can provide what mothers do and mothers can provide what fathers do. Many women are caregivers, not all. But men can be caregivers too. There are many great men who are/were teachers and plenty of very good male nurses out there.
 
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