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Would you have played knockout as a teenager because of peer pressure

GottaGo said:
All part and parcel of it, along with lack of teaching personal responsibility.
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Would you care to elaborate more on that?
 
GottaGo said:
I don't think having a dad or not has a major effect. Considering the general lack of moral guidance even shows up in homes where both parents are present, I'm thinking peer pressure to " man up" along with previously noted influences are more likely.
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Having a father can have a big effect. I know there were things that some of my friends would do that I was totally terrified of doing, and did not do because of fear of my father. As I mentioned previously, shoplifting was one.
 
I'm fairly young still, and it is safe to say I never had and would never have had any interest in hurting people on purpose for the "fun" of it. While other nations are racing ahead in education our youth are entertaining themselves knocking random strangers outs for the heck of it. We wonder why we fall behind....
 
It's also because men are more susceptible to pressure. If not, the marriage rates would drop considerably.
 
MildSteel said:
Having a father can have a big effect. I know there were things that some of my friends would do that I was totally terrified of doing, and did not do because of fear of my father. As I mentioned previously, shoplifting was one.
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Many bullies are actually abused physically and/or mentally and/or neglected by their parents, particularly male bullies and their fathers. And there are plenty of fathers who simply are not feared by their children. There are also plenty of children who fear their mother more than their father. The key is having involved parents who take an active role in their child's life, not being abusive or neglectful themselves, and actually listening to their children and being there for them.
 
roguenuke said:
Many bullies are actually abused physically and/or mentally and/or neglected by their parents, particularly male bullies and their fathers. And there are plenty of fathers who simply are not feared by their children. There are also plenty of children who fear their mother more than their father. The key is having involved parents who take an active role in their child's life, not being abusive or neglectful themselves, and actually listening to their children and being there for them.
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I agree with that. My point is that having a father can have a big effect, contrary to what it appeared the poster was putting forward. I speak from experience on that.
 
MildSteel said:
I agree with that. My point is that having a father can have a big effect, contrary to what it appeared the poster was putting forward. I speak from experience on that.
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Having good parents can have a big effect, not just having a "father". As I've said, many of these kids do have fathers, they just aren't worth crap.
 
roguenuke said:
Having good parents can have a big effect, not just having a "father". As I've said, many of these kids do have fathers, they just aren't worth crap.
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Everyone has a father. The question is, how many know who their father is ?
 
roguenuke said:
Having good parents can have a big effect, not just having a "father". As I've said, many of these kids do have fathers, they just aren't worth crap.
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My only problem with what you are saying is that it appears that you want to minimize the role that a good father can play. I had a very good mother as well. They both played a very good role in my development. But there were things that my father did, and the way that he did them, that only my father could do. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's the truth.
 
MildSteel said:
I can't prove it, but I think adolescent males are more prone to violence than females. Honestly, I'm not so sure that I would have said no if all my friends were doing it.

BTW, I wasn't into shoplifting. I was afraid of my father.
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Of course we're more prone to violence.

That's why we have football, cowboys and indians, BB guns, snowball fights, the high-in fastball, etc.

If, however, your whole intention is to purposefully inflict harm on someone who doesn't know they're playing your game you're a damned psychopath.
 
Lutherf said:
Of course we're more prone to violence.

That's why we have football, cowboys and indians, BB guns, snowball fights, the high-in fastball, etc.

If, however, your whole intention is to purposefully inflict harm on someone who doesn't know they're playing your game you're a damned psychopath.
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I just remember, doing things I didn't like and/or didn't agree with, just to fit in. So I can't say for certain that I would not have done it.
 
MildSteel said:
I just remember, doing things I didn't like and/or didn't agree with, just to fit in. So I can't say for certain that I would not have done it.
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In general, that wasn't me. If I figured that what we were talking about doing was going to result in more than a stern warning I really wasn't going to be convinced to do it. I think that impacted a number of kids I hung out with too because when I came home from basic training and associated training I stopped into a bar we used to frequent and found that 2 guys I used to run with were dead, another was doing 5 years and the "lucky" one was in court ordered rehab.

Don't get me wrong, I did PLENTY of stuff that would have been widely frowned upon but I had limits I was unwilling to exceed.
 
APACHERAT said:
Everyone has a father. The question is, how many know who their father is ?
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Not everyone has a father who is their parent. But would it have been better if I'd've said that many of them have fathers in their lives (to some degree at least) that are still not worth crap?
 
MildSteel said:
My only problem with what you are saying is that it appears that you want to minimize the role that a good father can play. I had a very good mother as well. They both played a very good role in my development. But there were things that my father did, and the way that he did them, that only my father could do. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's the truth.
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And you are trying to reduce the role of one parent to their gender, as many try to do. Parents are not defined or a necessity based on their gender, but rather what they bring to the raising of a child. I guarantee you that there is nothing that your father brought to raising you that was only because of his gender. It was because he is who he is. His gender may be part of that, but it was not a vital part of that. I turned out well, as did my siblings, and our father had very little to do with that fact, despite the fact that my parents were married and living together for all of my childhood.
 
roguenuke said:
And you are trying to reduce the role of one parent to their gender, as many try to do. Parents are not defined or a necessity based on their gender, but rather what they bring to the raising of a child. I guarantee you that there is nothing that your father brought to raising you that was only because of his gender. It was because he is who he is. His gender may be part of that, but it was not a vital part of that. I turned out well, as did my siblings, and our father had very little to do with that fact, despite the fact that my parents were married and living together for all of my childhood.
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IMO there should be at least 2 parental figures involved in the raising of a child because you've got to sleep at some point.
 
Nope - I'm 46 and I just wasn't raised that way. If I had a beef with someone I'd get in a fight with them but knockout some stranger for fun - it's ****ing sick in the head. My friends wouldn't be involved in anything like that either - they by and large were raised the same way. We'd do stupid stuff, but we'd never go hurt someone for fun it just wouldn't happen.
 
The Mark said:
IMO there should be at least 2 parental figures involved in the raising of a child because you've got to sleep at some point.
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I agree for the most part. A single parent could do it, depending on their personal financial situation and the availability of others to help them, while they maintain the primary parenting figure, but it is difficult for many.
 
MildSteel said:
I look at the knockout game and think is so ridiculous and cruel. However I remember being a teenager and doing stupid things because of peer pressure. I wonder if I would have played the knockout game because of peer pressure. Would you have played the knockout game as a teenager because of peer pressure?

Man attacked in suspected 'knockout game' in Manhattan - NY Daily News
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No way. Not only have I always been against violence, but I don't think I ever succumbed to peer pressure. In fact, I used to call people out when they seemed to be. Didn't endear me to some folks, but kept my integrity.
 
MildSteel said:
Again, I don't have stats to prove it, but there may be more violence these days. I was getting my hair cut by this younger guy. He was telling me how he saw these two girls get into a fight in high school. One had knocked the other to the ground and had gotten on top of her. The one of the bottom pulled a razor from her purse and started cutting the girl really bad. He said he went and grabbed the girl with the razor and she started cutting him. I didn't see it, but I don't think he was lying. Also I have a nephew who was stabbed at a nightclub. Then I was talking to this guy that does UFC. He used to work as a bouncer at a club. He told me he saw a guy slit another guy's throat right in front of him. Honestly, one reason why I stopped messing with that whole club scene was that I perceived it was becoming too violent. People start fighting and sometimes killing each other over very small things. Very dangerous.

Just saying.
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I'm going to buck the trend here and say No, there is NOT more violence today than there was in, say the 1970s and early 80s. Not in general.

I grew up in that period. Teenage boys and young men fought CONSTANTLY. At least, in my area they did. By the time I was 18 I couldn't count how many fights I'd been in, and I'd seen people knifed, and been on the wrong end of a couple pistols in the hands of hostile persons.

Today, by contrast, real fights among young males seem relatively rare.

Now there IS a difference...

Back then, we still had some remnants of the Code Duello and old-school honor. Generally you faced your enemy and let him know you were coming for him; sucker punching was frowned on. Sometimes weapons were involved, but there was a reluctance to kill... knives were usually used to cut not stab, and guns were usually pointed and not fired. One-on-one was the rule, gang beatdowns were mostly frowned on.

When I say "frowned on" I mean other guys might take it out of your hide.

These days, it seems that violence is more rare but more explosive, and that ambush attacks, multiple attackers and weapons are more typical, and that the reluctance to kill that I'd mentioned has faded.

But statistically, violence in the US is down from a high in the 70s. The 24/7 news hype makes it seem worse than it really is.
 
roguenuke said:
I agree for the most part. A single parent could do it, depending on their personal financial situation and the availability of others to help them, while they maintain the primary parenting figure, but it is difficult for many.
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Additionally, I think that one part of a child's development involves watching it's parents/guardians interact with each other. This would obviously not happen as much as much if only one parent is involved.
 
The "knockout game" typically seems to target the elderly, the sick or weak or drunk or otherwise "safe" targets... in my day we would have called that cowardly and despicable. Our idea of badass cool was walking up to the toughest guy around and telling him to come get some. :)
 
roguenuke said:
And you are trying to reduce the role of one parent to their gender, as many try to do. Parents are not defined or a necessity based on their gender, but rather what they bring to the raising of a child. I guarantee you that there is nothing that your father brought to raising you that was only because of his gender. It was because he is who he is. His gender may be part of that, but it was not a vital part of that. I turned out well, as did my siblings, and our father had very little to do with that fact, despite the fact that my parents were married and living together for all of my childhood.
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From what I've seen it REALLY is important for boys to have a male role model in their life, father or not. There's a certain point where they start establishing their gender identity and REALLY need that positive male role model to show them the way.

But I'll grant that no father might be better than some of the crappy fathers I've seen in recent years...
 
Goshin said:
The "knockout game" typically seems to target the elderly, the sick or weak or drunk or otherwise "safe" targets... in my day we would have called that cowardly and despicable. Our idea of badass cool was walking up to the toughest guy around and telling him to come get some. :)
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That's the thing though - there is no way I would consider it reasonable given my background, even as a child that kind of thing would have thrown up red flags all over the place.

But without the background, maybe it would seem normal? I dunno.
 
The Mark said:
That's the thing though - there is no way I would consider it reasonable given my background, even as a child that kind of thing would have thrown up red flags all over the place.

But without the background, maybe it would seem normal? I dunno.
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A lot depends on what you grow up thinking is 'normal'.


Also I'm not a big believer in the innate goodness of natural man.


So yeah... given the right background I figure anyone could possibly be a thug, a rapist, a robber or a murderer.


But in my day, we were very violent but we didn't hold with anything that seemed cowardly, so I go with that.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No way. Not only have I always been against violence, but I don't think I ever succumbed to peer pressure. In fact, I used to call people out when they seemed to be. Didn't endear me to some folks, but kept my integrity.
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Really? What an interesting claim! :rofl
 
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