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Thread: Dissolve NATO

  1. #11
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    Re: Dissolve NATO

    No.

    If anything: Expand NATO!!! And rewrite it`s charta!

    In my opinion it should be a military alliance of the free world, which means that it should not allow dictators to join and should offer membership to other democratic nations from arround the world.

    Like Australia, Brazil, Chile, Mexico, South Korea, India, South Africa, Indonesia, Phillipines, South Africa and others.

    This would not just give it a new goal and reason to exist, but give everyone the satisfaction of seeing a common enemy being scared: China.

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    Re: Dissolve NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    No.

    If anything: Expand NATO!!! And rewrite it`s charta!

    In my opinion it should be a military alliance of the free world, which means that it should not allow dictators to join and should offer membership to other democratic nations from arround the world.

    Like Australia, Brazil, Chile, Mexico, South Korea, India, South Africa, Indonesia, Phillipines, South Africa and others.

    This would not just give it a new goal and reason to exist, but give everyone the satisfaction of seeing a common enemy being scared: China.
    I could agree to this IF an only if the US continues to drawn down it's own military to a purely defensive force. I would then encourage an expansion of NATO as well, such that it's not incumbent of one country to take a primary role of protection, but many countries have skin in the game and would contribute to effectively thwarting an expanding regional war or, the threat of an escalating world war.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #13
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    Re: Dissolve NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    As a resident and citizen of a NATO country that is NOT the US, I would enjoy a debate on this.

    However, you have failed to even investigate the NATO charter, its terms of reference, the interests of countries other than the US or offered a case on why it needs to be abolished other than an uniformed opinion on it's intent, which is in error.

    If you can supply some relevant data that at least indicates you know, say, who the members are and what has been their participation I would eagerly participate in a debate.

    However I have no interest in doing so where I would have to bring you up to speed on some of the basics, like he fact your NATO allies of Canada and Poland took the worst of the casualties in Afghanistan particularly the Canadians in Kandahar fighting America's enemies.

    Yes if that means we don't have to go trucking off every time a president needs a lift in the polls then **** can it, NORAD too, please come and get your Arctic equipment.
    There's no need to investigate the NATO charter. Georgia and Ukraine are stress tests for a 21st century policy of military expansionism to compensate for the loss of power that came with grossly abusing their hegemony for half a century. Russia is either going to draw hundreds of millions of people from multiple countries who want nothing to do with their corrupt oligarchy into a "Eurasian Federation" to rival the economic and military might of the United States and European Union or is going to annex their resource-rich Russian speaking lands into its own country (courtesy of the period when Stalin sent Russians colonists in to stabilize rebellious satillites).

    If the European Union doesn't care about that, then the United States definitely shouldn't care. We are declining relative to the other countries and need to redirect our resources into places that matter, which is what we were already doing anyway with the strategic shift to Asia. There's no reason to share our resources or technology anymore, because there's no enemy anyone is willing to fight.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-06-14 at 05:52 PM.

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    Re: Dissolve NATO

    It'll be interesting to see how Europe devolves from NATO subscription as it becomes the foremost superpower, following the completion of its project of integration. With that concluded, there'll be no reason for it not to consolidate its existent military capacity, along with its augmentation via the long-proposed European 'super army'. With such a fundamental shift away from US military dominance, along with Europe's long-term focus on matters closer to home, its participation in NATO will become increasingly more untenable. How the rest of the world might react is an issue for them to consider.

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    Re: Dissolve NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    There's no need to investigate the NATO charter. Georgia and Ukraine are stress tests for a 21st century policy of military expansionism to compensate for the loss of power that came with grossly abusing their hegemony for half a century. Russia is either going to draw hundreds of millions of people from multiple countries who want nothing to do with their corrupt oligarchy into a "Eurasian Federation" to rival the economic and military might of the United States and European Union or is going to annex their resource-rich Russian speaking lands into its own country (courtesy of the period when Stalin sent Russians colonists in to stabilize rebellious satillites).

    I would have thought you would have wanted to at least appear to know what you are talking about.


    If the European Union doesn't care about that, then the United States definitely shouldn't care. We are declining relative to the other countries and need to redirect our resources into places that matter, which is what we were already doing anyway with the strategic shift to Asia. There's no reason to share our resources or technology anymore, because there's no enemy anyone is willing to fight.
    Thank you for your response.

    I will not be responding further since you have not supplied anything to support your uninformed opinions.

    Thank you
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    Re: Dissolve NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Actually it was formed to defend each other from attacks of any external force but, the US joined for that reason. Now we have a POTUS who doesn't see us as responsible for that duty.
    Another CON game. What NATO member nation is under attack?

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    Re: Dissolve NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I agree. NATO has become a joke and I see no reason for us spending money to defend Germany - as example - given the wealth of Germany (possibly in part for how little they spend on their military). Germany has not joined with the USA militarily - EVER - and we now know treaties and alliances are worthless any way as no one does anything about the invasion of Ukraine.
    You need a better rememberer...

    Germany and the rest of NATO, invoked the self defense clause after 9-11 and offered to join the USofA in Afghanistan. Rummy and BushII rebuffed them with a rather arrogant, 'Ya'll will just get in our way'.

    Later as the arrogant asses got us bogged down in Iraq and the Taliban/al-Qaeda elements grew stronger in neglected Afghanistan the BushII administration welcomed NATO support. German troops made up 40% of the ISAF in the summer of 2003.

    We have no defense treaty with the Ukraine. We have no alliance with the Ukraine. The Crimea wasn't part of the Ukraine until the 1950's. Lots is being done about the crisis in the Crimea. Would you have us send our military into the crisis? Are you going to be their advance team and mark the spot they are to land on?

    So you are once again standing pretty far away from the truth making bogus statements... I detect a trend with you.

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    Re: Dissolve NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    No. If anything: Expand NATO!!! And rewrite it`s charta! In my opinion it should be a military alliance of the free world, which means that it should not allow dictators to join and should offer membership to other democratic nations from arround the world. Like Australia, Brazil, Chile, Mexico, South Korea, India, South Africa, Indonesia, Phillipines, South Africa and others. This would not just give it a new goal and reason to exist, but give everyone the satisfaction of seeing a common enemy being scared: China.
    Actually there once was a series of alliances, CENTO, SEATO, NATO that attempted to ring in the Commie countries. Problem was regional conflict between potential members kept alliances from being more than paper exercises. Our allies are rather small and any real effort would be almost entirely a USofA one in many parts of the world. take our biggest ally in SE Asia, Australia. 30,000 active army troops. I doubt China is too intimidated by anyone but the US, and not so sure about that.

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    Re: Dissolve NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Thank you for your response.

    I will not be responding further since you have not supplied anything to support your uninformed opinions.

    Thank you
    This is a debate forum, not a analyst policy center. I'm not sure what you expect.
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    Re: Dissolve NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    No.

    If anything: Expand NATO!!! And rewrite it`s charta!

    In my opinion it should be a military alliance of the free world, which means that it should not allow dictators to join and should offer membership to other democratic nations from arround the world.

    Like Australia, Brazil, Chile, Mexico, South Korea, India, South Africa, Indonesia, Phillipines, South Africa and others.

    This would not just give it a new goal and reason to exist, but give everyone the satisfaction of seeing a common enemy being scared: China.
    We already have a Pacific alliance.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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