View Poll Results: Does race actually exist?

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, humans are divided into different races (white, black, mixed, etc.)

    28 50.00%
  • No, we are all the same race

    24 42.86%
  • I don't know/other

    4 7.14%
Page 11 of 14 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 139

Thread: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

  1. #101
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    re: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    And Gorillas "originated in Africa" too and even though they Never left/didn't get help from the environment in forced adaptation as Homo sapien did, [even] they DO have Different Species, Subspecies/Race.
    There are Mountain Gorillas, Eastern and/or Western Lowland Gorillas, etc, etc, you could Not tell apart. Same for other Flora/Fauna.
    "Originating in Africa" or anywhere else doesn't preclude further adaptation/Evolution; and Didn't.
    Humans have avoided these taxonomic classifications for Political reasons.
    Eastern/Mountain gorillas and Lowland gorillas are two different species.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  2. #102
    Sage
    Lovebug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,884

    re: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    but if DNA tests were done, they'd show neanderthal DNA whereas a sub-saharan african's would not...

    that was my question. is the presence or absence of neanderthal DNA enough of a difference to consider those with it a separate "race" than those without?

    I'm not, in any way, suggesting that one is superior to the other. merely that they are different. are they different enough to be considered distinct races?
    So you are seeking an answer to

    Species ( is one of the basic units of biological classification and a taxonomic rank. A species is often described as the largest group of organisms capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring.)
    not
    Race (is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation.) ?

  3. #103
    onomatopoeic
    mbig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-17 @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,350

    re: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Eastern/Mountain gorillas and Lowland gorillas are two different species.
    Except you're Not understanding what I said And certainly NOT tackling the Race issue.
    Eastern Lowland and Mountain are species beringei, Western Lowland, gorilla, both species have subspecies/'race'.
    Pix and taxonmic names here of some Gorilla species and subspecies.
    Images: Gorilla Species & Subspecies | LiveScience

    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla

    "...The Mountain gorilla inhabits the Albertine Rift montane cloud forests of the Virunga Volcanoes, ranging in altitude from 2,200–4,300 metres (7,200–14,100 ft).
    Lowland gorillas live in dense forests and lowland swamps and marshes as low as sea level, with Western lowland gorillas living in Central West African countries and Eastern lowland gorillas living in the Democratic Republic of the Congo near its border with Rwanda.[2]
    Bodhisatva had bizarrely claimed some sort of single race for humans just because they originated in Africa!
    Using Gorillas, I pointed out that despite not [even] leaving Africa, Gorillas had developed other subspecies/Race, even species, without the help of huge gigantic geographic distance and forced adaptation that human intercontinental mobility engendered.

    IOW, you leave my point and several posts on race untouched, except for unwittingly acknowledging it/them save for disagreeing 'which' gorillas are what specie/subspecie, Not the main issue they have them at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki entry continues
    "..Until recently, gorillas were considered to be a single species, with three subspecies: the western lowland gorilla, the eastern lowland gorilla and the mountain gorilla.[8][9] There is now agreement that there are two species with two subspecies each.
    More recently, a third subspecies has been claimed to exist in one of the species.
    The separate species and subspecies developed from a single type of gorilla during the Ice Age,
    when their forest habitats shrank and became isolated from each other
    .[2]..
    Human Races/subspecies had 50,000 years to similarly evolve, and did.
    Last edited by mbig; 03-08-14 at 02:26 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  4. #104
    Uncanny
    Paschendale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Last Seen
    03-31-16 @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    12,510

    re: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    The only way to prove that, however, would be to throw a bunch of random persons into a closed environment for a few hundred years and see what happens.

    Or something like that.
    You say this as if it hasn't already happened. That's what human evolution has been for the last hundred thousand years. Various groups of people found themselves in a new area, and adapted to it. That's where every deviation from the people who lived in the Congo Basin came from.

    Ultimately, those variations just don't matter for much. No one is kinder, more clever, more loving, more creative, more compassionate, or more just based on those variations. So who gives a crap about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    So race doesn't have to be Wildly discreet, just a small bit for which human Races easily qualify using Any/All other animals/species as comparison. Especially our near relative primates I elucidated on already.
    Then why aren't blonds and redheads different races? If skin color makes us something fundamentally different, why doesn't hair color? As above, the differences between various humans around the world simply aren't substantial enough to warrant any kind of classification like race. Who cares about the color of someone's skin? It has never made someone a better person to have one one set of features or another. It's just not important.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  5. #105
    onomatopoeic
    mbig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-17 @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,350

    re: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    ....


    Then why aren't blonds and redheads different races? If skin color makes us something fundamentally different, why doesn't hair color? As above, the differences between various humans around the world simply aren't substantial enough to warrant any kind of classification like race. Who cares about the color of someone's skin? It has never made someone a better person to have one one set of features or another. It's just not important.
    That's intentionally obtuse and/or dishonest
    I posted and REposted the qualification of race for you.
    Instead of answering you put up a 'short-quote' and False premise in service of your busted position
    .
    Race is NOT just about skin color.
    It's a whole set of genetic physical characteristics (Skeletal, muscular, pharmacological) that do Not vary as easily as hair color.
    A more honest and indicative illustration than your blond/redhead that NO one is claim are races:

    *In a room with 300 Naked people: 100 Scandinavians, 100 East Asians, and 100 African Bushmen.. what do you suppose your rate of error would be in telling these RACES apart despite any natural/frivolous variation within?*

    You also necessarily and DISHONESTLY 'short-quoted' me because you could not address what I took the trouble to post/REpost

    Here was that post Paschenadale Whiffed on to be able to continue his lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by me on last page Paschendale intentionally short-quoted/Left off
    Yes there is.
    Because Race is NOT as discreet, as say, Specie, it merely is some geographical morphological distinguishability caused by genetic difference.
    Race can be a very small difference.
    Indeed, I have elaborated other species that have less morphological distance and do have race/subspecies.
    You have willfully ignored all those posts to stay in Denial.
    It's Dishonest/Sociopathic.


    Identical to Bodhisatva, you Disingenuously Ignore/can't deal with what was posted by others and just repeat your 2+2=5 feel good without addressing anything.
    Specifically the top of page 6
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...y-exist-6.html
    and again on the last page.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1063009091

    Coyne from post #52 (and common sense among ALL other animals)
    What are races?
    In my own field of evolutionary biology, races of animals (also called “subspecies” or “ecotypes”) are morphologically distinguishable populations that live in allopatry (i.e. are geographically separated).
    There is No firm criterion on how Much morphological difference it takes to delimit a race.
    Races of mice, for example, are described Solely on the basis of Difference in coat Color, which could involve only One or two genes.

    Under that criterion, are there human Races?
    Yes.".."

    [.......]
    How different are the races genetically?
    Not very different. [......] BUT since the Delimitation of Races has historically depended NOT on the Degree of underlying genetic differences but ONLY on the existence of SOME genetic difference that Causes morphological difference, the genetic similarity of races Does NOT mean that they Don’t exist...."

    So race doesn't have to be Wildly discreet, just a small bit for which human Races easily qualify using Any/All other animals/species as comparison. Especially our near relative primates I elucidated on already.

    Anything Pasch, or will it be the Usual ignore the truth again and repost your Lie on page 14 and another string in two months, and in 2 years?

    It's amazing how many posters feel free to skip over meaty rebuttal and just deny/re-declare to preserve their Volvo-identity politics.

    Your Raging PC overrides your common and science sense on this and ALL other topics as well. You have the same problem with whitewashing Islam/Islamism I Bust a few times Every year - as now - to Silence and then empty/denialist repetition.
    So of course you Again DISHONESTLY left off Most of my rebuttal of your now Busted premise.
    Last edited by mbig; 03-08-14 at 02:54 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  6. #106
    Sage
    German guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 06:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    5,187

    re: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

    I don't know if race exists. But if/when it does, that's still no justification for treating different human individuals differently because of their race.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  7. #107
    onomatopoeic
    mbig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-17 @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,350

    re: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I don't know if race exists. But if/when it does, that's still no justification for treating different human individuals differently because of their race.
    Agreed and have done so many times.
    As I always say, you Never know who you're shaking hands with.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  8. #108
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    re: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    edit: FWIW, humans and chimps have ~98% of the same DNA. That 2% difference is enough to make one a human and one a chimp. is it so unreasonable to think that a 2-4% difference in DNA among humans would not result in different "races"?
    The "Chimps share 98% of our DNA" thing is grossly misleading. Chimps have 48 chromosomes, while we have 46. That alone contributes to much greater variance than people realize because when we take the analysis to the gene/chromosome level, we can see that the differences between a chimp and a human are a LOT more than just 2% of their genetic material. In fact, about 40% of the individual genes are very different. They are similar, thus creating the 98% illusion when looked at from a wide-angle perspective, but at the individual level, a2% change on an individual gene is enormous, and if we have that in 40% of the genes present, we have massive variation.

    Whereas with human variance, more than 98% of the individual genes we have are identical or very close to being identical to each other. The actual variance in genes from person to person is very small, much much smaller than the variance that is seen between human and chimp genes.

    To explain, the genes that cause blue eyes and brown eyes are about 99.9% similar to each other. But when that 0.1% difference is present, we say that Gene is 100% different from the other. If that was the only difference in 100 genes analyzed, we'd say that the two shared 99% of the same genes. While they would share about 99.999% of the same genetic material overall.

    Neandertal genes are much the same. They are 99.9% like those of human genes, as they are simply a sub-species of human genes. The variance is small. About 2-4% of the total genes of a non-sub-Saharan-African reflect these differences, but the total variance comprised by this difference is more likely to be about 0.1%. of the total genome rather than 2-4% the genome as it would first appear based on the appearance of the numbers.

    When getting into a DNA debate, it's really really important to make a distinction on where these percentage differences lay, otherwise one could fall into the trap of assuming a 2-4% difference in genes = a 2-4% difference in genetic material. There are some very very different analyses going on with those numbers.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  9. #109
    Uncanny
    Paschendale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Last Seen
    03-31-16 @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    12,510

    re: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    That's intentionally obtuse and/or dishonest
    I posted and REposted the qualification of race for you.
    Instead of answering you put up a 'short-quote' and False premise in service of your busted position
    .
    Race is NOT just about skin color.
    It's a whole set of genetic physical characteristics (Skeletal, muscular, pharmacological) that do Not vary as easily as hair color.
    A more honest and indicative illustration than your blond/redhead that NO one is claim are races:

    *In a room with 300 Naked people: 100 Scandinavians, 100 East Asians, and 100 African Bushmen.. what do you suppose your rate of error would be in telling these RACES apart despite any natural/frivolous variation within?*

    You also necessarily and DISHONESTLY 'short-quoted' me because you could not address what I took the trouble to post/REpost

    Here was that post Paschenadale Whiffed on to be able to continue his lie.

    So of course you Again DISHONESTLY left off Most of my rebuttal of your now Busted premise.
    All of your freaky and kinda racist ranting aside... why bother splitting people into such classifications? Why is this important? Why do you want so badly for there to be races and some people not be the same race as you?

    My premise, that you don't seem to get, is that whatever differences exist among humans aren't worth dividing people up over. They simply don't matter that much. Except apparently they matter to you. Which is creepy.

    Oh, and here's your full post quoted, because not doing so hurts your feelings apparently.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #110
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,752

    re: Does race actually exist?[W:115]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You say this as if it hasn't already happened. That's what human evolution has been for the last hundred thousand years. Various groups of people found themselves in a new area, and adapted to it. That's where every deviation from the people who lived in the Congo Basin came from.

    Ultimately, those variations just don't matter for much. No one is kinder, more clever, more loving, more creative, more compassionate, or more just based on those variations. So who gives a crap about them?
    Hmm, hadn't thought of it that way.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

Page 11 of 14 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •