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Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

Do you want Obamacare to Fail


  • Total voters
    86
No. Plus, my comment was not a call-out post but to people in general who show sociopathic tendencies.



I don't think it's that simple. But I don't wanna stray too far off topic here--Feel free to start a debate on that subject, as it honestly sounds like it can be a good one. :)

I think it is essentially the same thing. If I tell you that you can't leave a room and I force you to follow my command, then what is the difference between that and prison? The only real difference I would suspect is that prison is more dangerous.
 
I absolutely want it to fail, I'm just afraid that having it passed at all has catastrophically ruined any chance of going back to what we had or fixing the system to make it workable. Thanks Obama, you messed up once again.
 
Now, there's a decent argument that the failure of Obamacare could usher in something worse (or better, depending on your point of view - honestly, single payer scares the **** out of me). To be truthful, though, I'm not rooting for Obamacare. I didn't want it and the fact that "you could keep your insurance" had to be such a big part of getting support indicates to me, that a good many of us didn't want it and Obama knew that. Now, I don't know if it can ever fully go away, but presuming it could do you want Obamacare to fail?

Give me a minute to attach the poll.

I want it to fail because it is 10,000's of pages of regulations that no one human being can fully understand. It's unsustainable and is full of pork and homeboy hookups for corporate buddies. We do need health care reform but this is not it.
 
You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Any attempt to “repair” the ObamaCare scam can only make it worse. The only genuine repair has to begin with completely repealing this entire steaming pile of solid digestive waste and starting over.

That's the talking point. I disagree. In fact, in the "total repeal of Obamacare GOP alternative" some of the ACA provisions are kept in place. I'm sorry, but I simply cannot be persuaded in the current political climate the GOP is interested in anything other than doing all it can to see to it that the Obama Administration haws a failed legacy even if it means harming the people of America in the process.
 
I want it to fail because it is 10,000's of pages of regulations that no one human being can fully understand. It's unsustainable and is full of pork and homeboy hookups for corporate buddies. We do need health care reform but this is not it.

These are the things that can and should be amended. I seriously doubt that after almost 4 years many of the pork and hookups could not have been repealed and replaced with improvements if couched in a spirit of America first cooperation instead of using it as the democrats' Achilles Heel campaign tool.
 
That's the talking point. I disagree. In fact, in the "total repeal of Obamacare GOP alternative" some of the ACA provisions are kept in place. I'm sorry, but I simply cannot be persuaded in the current political climate the GOP is interested in anything other than doing all it can to see to it that the Obama Administration haws a failed legacy even if it means harming the people of America in the process.

The failed Obama legacy, and the harm to Americans, is on Obama. I do not buy any variant of the wrong-wing tactic of trying to blame Republicans for the consequences of extremely bad policies put forth by the Democrats. It is Obama and his stooges that created this mess, and it i Obama and his stooges who are fully to blame for any harm that is caused thereby. In trying to place any of this blame on those who have done everything in their power to oppose this bad policy, you only destroy whatever credibility you might otherwise have had.
 
These are the things that can and should be amended. I seriously doubt that after almost 4 years many of the pork and hookups could not have been repealed and replaced with improvements if couched in a spirit of America first cooperation instead of using it as the democrats' Achilles Heel campaign tool.

So, uh, any blame at all for those who actually brought all this on?
 
What scares you about it? You are a small business owner and an individual. The only problem with single payer is that taxes will be higher. Taxes were high in our country back in 1993. Nobody died from higher taxes. People do die and/or live miserable lives due to the emotional stress of medical bills exceeding twice the lifetime income of a healthy 20 year old. Imagine if you are 50 and disabled as a result of your medical issue. You'll never pay it back. In a nation full of honest people this is a problem. When honest people are unable to pay a bill that they are obligated to pay, this causes great emotional strain. Over time emotional stress causes more medical problems. Those medical bills won't be paid either. Which adds stress on the impacted individual and stress to the overall medical system.



With single payer the unpredictable cost of health insurance will no longer be the problem of your small business. This will allow you the chance to focus on running your business in the most effective way possible. You will no longer have to alter your business due to some retarded industry that has a completely perverted business model where the customer tries to screw the service provider and the service provider is trying to screw the customer. Real businesses doesn't operate that way. Health insurance is a retarded product.



With single payer you will not have to pay for health insurance any more. You will simply pay higher taxes. You will have the satisfaction of knowing that every single person in your country will receive the medical treatment they need. This may cause you to be lessed pissed off about the higher taxes.

Why are you scared of single payer? Is it a principle thing? Because it really makes no sense to me why you would oppose a system that most countries already use. Some Republicans are considering this as a strategy of combatting Obamacare. They probably won't but it is being considered as a plank to the Republican Party platform.




If that doesn't make someone pause, nothing will.
 
I don't cheer for anything to fail. However, I can still predict it. What Obama wants is literally impossible.
 


If that doesn't make someone pause, nothing will.


Thanks for posting this, because in that video, he plainly and uncharacteristically for a politician, honestly explains what my fear is based around regarding single payer.

This is the same reason that I have private insurance and do not rely on the VA for my medical care. Any government run health care makes choices based on money, and not health.

At least with a private insurance policy, I can negotiate my coverage and have legal recourse to protect my interests. With government, I have no legal recourse or the ability to negotiate my coverage. The PPACA also removed the ability to negotiate my coverage with private insurance companies, to a great extent, although I was able to negotiate certain coverage that I would not be allowed to do under single payer.
 
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There are two places in the world for people who have nearly zero concern for the well-being of others:
Psychiatric wards and prisons.

I think this is a good example of why there can be difficulty dealing with the left (and I'm not talking about everyone on the left). Instead of dealing in the realities of problems that even Democrat politicians have acknowledged, to some, any disagreement is a character flaw or makes you sociopathic. There can be no compromise with crusaders.
 
Thanks for posting this, because in that video, he plainly and uncharacteristically for a politician, honestly explains what my fear is based around regarding single payer.

What is that fear, bureaucracy?
 
What is that fear, bureaucracy?

Good question.

Bureaucracy as an entity is not my concern. The impersonal application of something as personal as health care by a bureaucratic system is a concern.

My health care should be my choice, with the guidance of my physicians. Not the choice of an insurance company or a government agency.

My insurance policy gives me and my doctor the choices of treatment. Source and amount of payment are the only choices where my insurance gets involved (although they do try to exceed that limitation regularly).

I just got home from having an ultrasound. The cost of the procedure alone (not including doctor's fees), was $843.00. I had to pay the entire amount because of my deductible and it being early in the year. Under single payer, I may have not been allowed to have the procedure, since there may not be a mechanism for me to pay the costs directly, or even get approval to have the procedure from the government.

For instance, I always try to go through the VA first. The VA disapproved the procedure. My private doctor ordered the procedure and I was scheduled to receive it. The VA refused to perform it. I had to go to a private medical imaging and radiologist group to have the procedure.

My late father-in-law, and my mother-in-law had/have the same problems with Medicare. We have to have a separate private insurance policy as well as use our own funds to cover treatments that Medicare will not allow (look at the video X posted for prima facie evidence of this fact).

The same happens to many in Canada that have to come to the US to have procedures that are not allowed by the Canadian single payer system.

I don't want that here, not for me.

You have the right to do as you wish. As for me? I prefer to have a voice of what happens to my own body.
 
Good question.

Bureaucracy as an entity is not my concern. The impersonal application of something as personal as health care by a bureaucratic system is a concern.

My health care should be my choice, with the guidance of my physicians. Not the choice of an insurance company or a government agency.

My insurance policy gives me and my doctor the choices of treatment. Source and amount of payment are the only choices where my insurance gets involved (although they do try to exceed that limitation regularly).

I just got home from having an ultrasound. The cost of the procedure alone (not including doctor's fees), was $843.00. I had to pay the entire amount because of my deductible and it being early in the year. Under single payer, I may have not been allowed to have the procedure, since there may not be a mechanism for me to pay the costs directly, or even get approval to have the procedure from the government.

For instance, I always try to go through the VA first. The VA disapproved the procedure. My private doctor ordered the procedure and I was scheduled to receive it. The VA refused to perform it. I had to go to a private medical imaging and radiologist group to have the procedure.

My late father-in-law, and my mother-in-law had/have the same problems with Medicare. We have to have a separate private insurance policy as well as use our own funds to cover treatments that Medicare will not allow (look at the video X posted for prima facie evidence of this fact).

The same happens to many in Canada that have to come to the US to have procedures that are not allowed by the Canadian single payer system.

I don't want that here, not for me.

You have the right to do as you wish. As for me? I prefer to have a voice of what happens to my own body.

And that is the main issue, isn't it? I don't care what other system others want to be on, what bothers me is how they want to force me into it as well. I'm fine dealing wit private insurance, and, like you, I may have to pay out of pocket initially until my deductible is met. Shoot, I never opt for vision so every year I get my check-up and contact prescription, I pay for it myself. I just don't find it particularly appalling to pay for services I received.
 
And that is the main issue, isn't it? I don't care what other system others want to be on, what bothers me is how they want to force me into it as well. I'm fine dealing wit private insurance, and, like you, I may have to pay out of pocket initially until my deductible is met. Shoot, I never opt for vision so every year I get my check-up and contact prescription, I pay for it myself. I just don't find it particularly appalling to pay for services I received.

And therein lies the disconnect in philosophies between the entitlement system progenitors and those like you and I.

The only thing I feel entitled to, is to receive and pay for services I want/need and negotiate for, in one way or another.

I'm not entitled to others paying for what I receive.
 
I have to agree, that one of the aspects of the ACA that's unappealing is making the middle class pay for care they don't need or want. Somehow, they should make the plans more flexible, so certain groups don't feel like they're being penalized for not being impoverished. Take more from the Insurance Companies and wealthy employers pockets, instead of employees. Create regulations that allow for Hospitals and Providers to negotiate for better pricing from medical suppliers.

Wishing a plan that has some good aspects to fail, when the Healthcare system itself was already flailing isn't helpful. Asking for changes and alterations, seems more reasonable and cooperative.
 
I must have missed the part where anyone was discussing any plan that had any good aspects. I thought we were talking about ObamaCare.

Are you presenting dense comments on purpose?

• No annual or lifetime limits on healthcare.
• Insurance companies can't drop you when you are sick or for making a mistake on your application.
• You can't be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
• You have the right to quickly appeal any health insurance company decision.
• You have the right to get an easy-to-understand summary about a health plan’s benefits and coverage.
• Young Adults can stay on their parent's plan until 26.
• A large improvement to women's health services.
• Reforms to the healthcare industry to cut wasteful spending.
• Better care and protections for seniors.
• New preventative Services at no-out-of pocket costs.
 
I "want it to fail" the same way I'd want my 1-6 football team to "Fail".

In the analogy, you don't see any hope to actually turn the season around. As such, you'd rather bite the short term bullet and see the team lose most of the rest of their games as opposed to winning a few unexpected ones and winding up with a middling record hovering around .500. By "failing" the rest of the season you end up with a high draft position and a more favorable schedule next year. You take the short term pain in hopes for something much, much better in the future.

The same goes for Obamacare. I don't see any real hope of it "turning around". As such, I'd rather take the pain of it being clunkly launched and a tormultuous period after it's repealed because I think it'd lead to a better situation in the future.

Now, if my 1-6 team suddenly gets a fire under it's ass and somehow starts winning game after game after game then I'm still going to cheer for them. And if they inexplicably make the playoffs, I'll be rooting for them. But I wouldn't be expecting that to happen, and I'd be nervously cheering until it became clear that this team actually WAS capable of making some noise.

Similarly, when a good thing happens regarding Obamacare I'll still be happy about that instance even if I'm down on the whole thing. And if somehow over time it actually starts looking like it could be a good and worth while system, then perhaps I'll come around to it.

But at the moment...absolutely, I'd like it to fail because I think there's a better option for the long term health (no pun intended) of the country. But if it doesn't fail and it actually succeeds and is good for the country then I'd be happy to be wrong. But since I don't think that's going to be the case, I'd rather see it be done with and replaced over languishing in meidocrity for years upon years.
 
I "want it to fail" the same way I'd want my 1-6 football team to "Fail".

In the analogy, you don't see any hope to actually turn the season around. As such, you'd rather bite the short term bullet and see the team lose most of the rest of their games as opposed to winning a few unexpected ones and winding up with a middling record hovering around .500. By "failing" the rest of the season you end up with a high draft position and a more favorable schedule next year. You take the short term pain in hopes for something much, much better in the future.

The same goes for Obamacare. I don't see any real hope of it "turning around". As such, I'd rather take the pain of it being clunkly launched and a tormultuous period after it's repealed because I think it'd lead to a better situation in the future.

Now, if my 1-6 team suddenly gets a fire under it's ass and somehow starts winning game after game after game then I'm still going to cheer for them. And if they inexplicably make the playoffs, I'll be rooting for them. But I wouldn't be expecting that to happen, and I'd be nervously cheering until it became clear that this team actually WAS capable of making some noise.

Similarly, when a good thing happens regarding Obamacare I'll still be happy about that instance even if I'm down on the whole thing. And if somehow over time it actually starts looking like it could be a good and worth while system, then perhaps I'll come around to it.

But at the moment...absolutely, I'd like it to fail because I think there's a better option for the long term health (no pun intended) of the country. But if it doesn't fail and it actually succeeds and is good for the country then I'd be happy to be wrong. But since I don't think that's going to be the case, I'd rather see it be done with and replaced over languishing in meidocrity for years upon years.

So what's the Tim Tebow equivalent for Obamacare? Veto of the individual mandate?
 
I "want it to fail" the same way I'd want my 1-6 football team to "Fail".

In the analogy, you don't see any hope to actually turn the season around. As such, you'd rather bite the short term bullet and see the team lose most of the rest of their games as opposed to winning a few unexpected ones and winding up with a middling record hovering around .500. By "failing" the rest of the season you end up with a high draft position and a more favorable schedule next year. You take the short term pain in hopes for something much, much better in the future.

The same goes for Obamacare. I don't see any real hope of it "turning around". As such, I'd rather take the pain of it being clunkly launched and a tormultuous period after it's repealed because I think it'd lead to a better situation in the future.

Now, if my 1-6 team suddenly gets a fire under it's ass and somehow starts winning game after game after game then I'm still going to cheer for them. And if they inexplicably make the playoffs, I'll be rooting for them. But I wouldn't be expecting that to happen, and I'd be nervously cheering until it became clear that this team actually WAS capable of making some noise.

Similarly, when a good thing happens regarding Obamacare I'll still be happy about that instance even if I'm down on the whole thing. And if somehow over time it actually starts looking like it could be a good and worth while system, then perhaps I'll come around to it.

But at the moment...absolutely, I'd like it to fail because I think there's a better option for the long term health (no pun intended) of the country. But if it doesn't fail and it actually succeeds and is good for the country then I'd be happy to be wrong. But since I don't think that's going to be the case, I'd rather see it be done with and replaced over languishing in meidocrity for years upon years.


But it seems like you're building from the bottom up, with a much further distance to success with that analogy. I understand the need to start over, if there's no signs of improvement but that doesn't seem to be the case in this instance. Wouldn't it be easier to build upon a team with some good players and management, than start completely from scratch?

Unless there's more cooperation from both sides of the isle, without gamesmanship for political advantages, then the health system is probably doomed to mediocrity, due to our leaders, not the people. Look at how long both sides have let Medicare, languish and dive in debt without any real reform. If the members from both parties would put pressure on the powers to be, to make more compromises for the welfare of the health system as a whole, it would be fixed over night. That might not seem realistic but it is possible for like minded people on both sides to push for it.

How can anyone want to repeal the whole thing without any alternatives in place? To me, that's like being abandoned on an island with no real opportunities to escape. Waiting for rescue and signaling for passing ships hasn't worked for years and my health and resources are deteriorating. Then I come up with building a raft to leave, because I'm surely going to die a slow death, staying on the island. It's not a great plan or without a lot of dangers and low success rate, but it's better than nothing.
 
How exactly does single payer scare you? Are you terrified of communally paid-for roads? Public parks? Are things only okay if there's a higher class profiting from it at the expense of a lower class?

Government funded services in America have a horrible reputation as being inefficient, sub-standard, bureaucratic and are often absent any attempt at treating the customer like they're valued. I'm sure you've had horror stories of of your own.
 
Roads! That thing only government can do.

In fairness I think there are others as well. Police, fire fighters, the military, most state colleges and universities.
 
Yes. I do not want the government requiring people to give money to private corporations to be defined as a success. It is a door that was opened that I want closed.

Would you want a program of forced racial segregation to "succeed?" I see ObamaCare as fundamentally wrong for the reason I gave and therefore, success is not possible.
 
I voted "yes", I do want Obamacare to fail. Even though there are a few positive components to it, those are overwhelmed by the negative components of what was a horribly ill conceived, disastrous piece of legislation that is destroying our free market healthcare system, takes away even more of our unalienable rights, and brings us closer to totalitarian government. When the government controls all of our healthcare, which I do believe is the ultimate goal, it will hold ever so much more power over us to do anything to us it wants.

The Founders gave us a government in which the government was to enforce just enough regulation to allow the several states to function as one nation, the government would secure our rights, and then the government, at least at the federal level, would leave us alone to govern ourselves and form whatever sort of societies we wished to have.

Obamacare is the largest abomination and violation of that concept I have seen in my increasingly lengthy lifetime. It should be repealed in total.
 
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