View Poll Results: Do you want Obamacare to Fail

Voters
106. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    42 39.62%
  • No

    54 50.94%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    3 2.83%
  • Chuck Norris

    7 6.60%
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Thread: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yes, yes, the government must meddle, get involved, or even take over an industry because the free market fails. Yeah, yeah, we heard that about a long series of things by now. Why don't you restate the argument for public education. You might notice it's almost exactly like what you just said.
    I think the government should get out of a lot of areas. Basically, the only things I want the government really involved in is healthcare because it doesn't adhere to the laws of supply and demand (outside of completely elective procedures), environmental protection, and public education (although it obviously needs significant reform). The rest of it I could care less about.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Glad to see Chuck has a couple votes.

  3. #23
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?
    If there was ever a credible proposal that could plausibly achieve what the ObamaCare scam purports to be intended to achieve—universal, affordable health coverage for everyone without any corresponding damage to the economy as a whole, or otherwise causing any harm that offsets the benefits—then I would certainly want such a proposal to succeed.

    I do not believe that such is possible, and I certainly do not believe that the ObamaCare scam has any possible result but the opposite. It doesn't matter if I want the ObamaCare scam to succeed or fail. It doesn't matter what anyone else wants. There is no possible outcome other than that the ObamaCare scam is going to fail catastrophically. There is simply no way that it was ever possible for it to do otherwise. The best that I can hope is that this failure happens as swiftly as possible, and that the damage that it will cause will be as easy as possible to repair; and that it teaches this nation a vital and valuable lesson about allowing our corrupt and overbearing government to stick its nose that far into places where it has no business doing so.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    This is always going to be the problem, who's going to pay for it? We know it has to be the middle class and all of them or it will be a total bust. Everybody should have figured that out when they shoved the bill through without it being read first.

  5. #25
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    No. I want it to succeed. Then i want people to ditch the for profit system all together.


  6. #26
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No, I don't want it to fail. But I think it probably needs a good tweaking. Some things right off the top: lower the number of hours to 20 for considering an employee part-time
    Creating huge financial incentives for employers to reduce employee hours only has the effect of... making it more profitable to reduce employee hours.

    let religious organizations opt out of birth control and abortion coverage;
    Rights are individual in nature. Until you also allow religious individuals to opt out on faith-based grounds, you are still going to have lawsuits.

    I think coverage for mental health and addiction is going to have to be changed. I'm sure there are hundreds of regulations in the background that most of us know nothing about that need changing; and that'll probably happen eventually.
    Hundreds? Only hundreds?



    I'd say.... "thousands" would be.... well, a not-too-terribly conservative estimate.

    There is absolutely no way people could get coverage for pre-existing conditions without a mandate.
    Sure they could - they are called "high risk pools", and can be operated at the State level.

    But for the life of me, I don't know why they didn't just fold everyone into Medicare. Maybe they will eventually.
    ...Medicare is currently scheduled to go bankrupt in the 2020s. Every person hitting retirement age today is scheduled to outlive their benefits. Even back when our top tax rate was 91%, we did not collect anywhere near the revenue that we would need to "fold everyone into Medicare"; and attempting to do so would only have the effect of collapsing our social safety net.

  7. #27
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Now, there's a decent argument that the failure of Obamacare could usher in something worse (or better, depending on your point of view - honestly, single payer scares the **** out of me). To be truthful, though, I'm not rooting for Obamacare. I didn't want it and the fact that "you could keep your insurance" had to be such a big part of getting support indicates to me, that a good many of us didn't want it and Obama knew that. Now, I don't know if it can ever fully go away, but presuming it could do you want Obamacare to fail?

    Give me a minute to attach the poll.
    I am of the opinion that republicans in congress could help make fixes in the ACA or Obamacare but they don't want to. Obamacare presents too big of a political opportunity to actually make adjustments that can make it workable. From their MO any addressing of Obamacare must be couched in language that requires the President's key legislative initiative to shame him, must be "completely repealed" before anything can be done and defines his Presidency as a failure. If they really cared about the American people they would offer amendments to the ACA in a spirit of bi-partisanship such as:

    - Introducing federal legislation that AMENDS the ACA to allow policies to be purchased across state lines.
    - Expand health savings accounts WITHIN the ACA.
    - Require healthcare providers to publish the fees for various procedures and treatments so consumers can better shop for medical services.
    - Help make common less expensive treatment options like midwifery at military hospitals that could in time become more accepted at other hospitals as a result.

    But again, they don't want to help make the ACA better, not when it can be used as a political football.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I think the government should get out of a lot of areas. Basically, the only things I want the government really involved in is healthcare because it doesn't adhere to the laws of supply and demand (outside of completely elective procedures), environmental protection, and public education (although it obviously needs significant reform). The rest of it I could care less about.
    The State is a parasitic creature; in that, it lives coercively off the production of the citizens. There is in fact, only two means in which a man can be productive. One, is the method of production and voluntary exchange, which is the method used in the free market. The other, is the method of robbery by the use of violence, or in this case, taxation. This quote covers the rest in which I want say...

    Whatever amount is taken from the community in the form of taxes, if not lost, goes to them in the shape of expenditures or disbursements. The two—disbursement and taxation—constitute the fiscal action of the government. They are correlatives. What the one takes from the community under the name of taxes is transferred to the portion of the community who are the recipients under that of disbursements. But as the recipients constitute only a portion of the community, it follows, taking the two parts of the fiscal process together, that its action must be unequal between the payers of the taxes and the recipients of their proceeds. Nor can it be otherwise; unless what is collected from each individual in the shape of taxes shall be returned to him in that of disbursements, which would make the process nugatory and absurd. ...

    The necessary result, then, of the unequal fiscal action of the government is to divide the community into two great classes: one consisting of those who, in reality, pay the taxes and, of course, bear exclusively the burden of supporting the government; and the other, of those who are the recipients of their proceeds through disbursements, and who are, in fact, supported by the government; or, in fewer words, to divide it into tax-payers and tax-consumers.

    But the effect of this is to place them in antagonistic relations in reference to the fiscal action of the government—and the entire course of policy therewith connected. For the greater the taxes and disbursements, the greater the gain of the one and the loss of the other, and vice versa. ... The effect, then, of every increase is to enrich and strengthen the one, and impoverish and weaken the other.
    There is no real social reform or progress that can be found using the state. It a coercive parasitic creature that was neither put in place for the peoples benefit, or serves to its behest. It's simply a tool of force that has no ability to use any other tool or could ever possibly use another tool to reach it's ends. There is no great benefit that can be found by using this creature to run those systems we are in need of, nor any great reason to even suggest it would be wise to do.

  9. #29
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I am of the opinion that republicans in congress could help make fixes in the ACA or Obamacare but they don't want to. Obamacare presents too big of a political opportunity to actually make adjustments that can make it workable. From their MO any addressing of Obamacare must be couched in language that requires the President's key legislative initiative to shame him, must be "completely repealed" before anything can be done and defines his Presidency as a failure. If they really cared about the American people they would offer amendments to the ACA in a spirit of bi-partisanship such as:

    - Introducing federal legislation that AMENDS the ACA to allow policies to be purchased across state lines.
    - Expand health savings accounts WITHIN the ACA.
    - Require healthcare providers to publish the fees for various procedures and treatments so consumers can better shop for medical services.
    - Help make common less expensive treatment options like midwifery at military hospitals that could in time become more accepted at other hospitals as a result.

    But again, they don't want to help make the ACA better, not when it can be used as a political football.
    I think there's some truth to this, but I'm also ok with it. It was passed without any Republican votes, why would the Republicans want to help 'fix' it? I know how bad that sounds but, like I said, I didn't want this.

  10. #30
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I think there's some truth to this, but I'm also ok with it. It was passed without any Republican votes, why would the Republicans want to help 'fix' it? I know how bad that sounds but, like I said, I didn't want this.
    Bingo. We told them not to do this, they refused our suggestions when offered, and were convinced that this was going to usher in some kind of nirvana. This is their bed, let them lay in it.

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