View Poll Results: Do you want Obamacare to Fail

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  • Yes

    42 39.62%
  • No

    54 50.94%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    3 2.83%
  • Chuck Norris

    7 6.60%
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Thread: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

  1. #121
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It's my opinion it is theft? What do you call taking someones property without the owners permission? Theft.
    Yes you are correct it is your opinion.
    You are missing the democratic consent part of the argument. Taxes are not arbitrary impositions decreed by a faceless government, taxes are dues we pay in exchange for membership in a society and access to all the services it offers.
    Saying taxation is theft is like saying if someone is found guilty of a crime and hauled off to jail is being kidnapped. Its ludicrous.
    Taxes are paying back to society what you owe for the wealth you have generated on the resources it has used on you and for the insurance of that wealth you have gained.


    So more or less everything deemed vital they will either supply or be involved in. You should be pretty happy with the current system then.
    No im not. I think the government should nationalize more.

    We can talk about whatever you please to talk about, but that doesn't mean it is open to debate.
    Oh i forgot this wasnt a debate politics site


  2. #122
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Now, there's a decent argument that the failure of Obamacare could usher in something worse (or better, depending on your point of view - honestly, single payer scares the **** out of me). To be truthful, though, I'm not rooting for Obamacare. I didn't want it and the fact that "you could keep your insurance" had to be such a big part of getting support indicates to me, that a good many of us didn't want it and Obama knew that. Now, I don't know if it can ever fully go away, but presuming it could do you want Obamacare to fail?

    Give me a minute to attach the poll.
    I think with actual factual information, there's little to be scared of.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #123
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Anything that forces people into commerce and has a long list of human right violations attached to it I want to fail.
    I don't put much credence in that thinking. It ignores the actual nature of healthcare. Few people buy cancer or being struck by lightening or being shot by a friend, relative, or enemy. But the care you need then has to be paid for. Much like when your house catches on fire. Firefighters put it out. I wonder how negotiation would go for that on the market? We all know that young people never live in homes that burn down, and they never have car accidents, or need the police. But they will need healthcare, sooner or later. And most won't be able to afford it.

    Of course, we could have a plan. Say a universal plan? :coffpap

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #124
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    "Human rights violations"???
    It was an idiot exaggeration. Not much else.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #125
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    I can't believe Chuck Norris isn't getting more votes. I demand a recount.

    I don't want Obamacare to fail, but I think it will.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  6. #126
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yes you are correct it is your opinion.
    You are missing the democratic consent part of the argument. Taxes are not arbitrary impositions decreed by a faceless government, taxes are dues we pay in exchange for membership in a society and access to all the services it offers.
    Saying taxation is theft is like saying if someone is found guilty of a crime and hauled off to jail is being kidnapped. Its ludicrous.
    Taxes are paying back to society what you owe for the wealth you have generated on the resources it has used on you and for the insurance of that wealth you have gained.
    There is only few arguments that I have seen by people that argue that taxes are not theft. There is the argument that there is only two sure things in life "death and taxes", which is kind of like saying the only sure things in life is death and getting robbed. That argument is more of a "it's just a fact life and therefore stop complaining about it" argument. Then there is the social contract argument, which states that taxes are part of the social contract and therefore we consented to be taxed. Then we have the good old taxes are voluntary argument, which of course ignores completely how they are collected and the punishment for not paying them. Finally, we have your argument that it is the due to society for the privilege of being a citizen and having access to services and that helped create your wealth. This argument is perhaps the most arrogant, and if wasn't for the taxes are voluntary argument, it would be dumbest as well. It relies on so many false premises that it is absolutely amazing they all fit in such a small argument. For one thing, society is a group of individuals with their own rights and there is no thing as people owing any sort of whatever to society. For another, this idea that somehow you owe payment for services that you never asked for is completely illogical. That would mean that if anyone does you any favors that you didn't ask for that it doesn't matter one way or the other if you consented to it being done, as now you owe them payment, as if some sort of exchange was ever agreed upon. Then you have the idiotic wealth argument that assumes that because I earn wealth that I owe wealth to other people. Of course, that is idiotic as my earning of wealth has no effect on your worthiness of my wealth. They are completely separate from each other.

    Now that all that nonsense is out of the way, the only thing that needs to be said, is that when you take property from someone without them agreeing to that transaction you have taken part in theft.


    No im not. I think the government should nationalize more.
    Well, I would imagine we are getting there anyway..

    Oh i forgot this wasnt a debate politics site
    What would you like to debate? How you are owed the vital services that keep you alive at other peoples dime? Is that it? Or perhaps how great of an idea it is for the organization that is the greatest killer and oppressor in all of human history to run your healthcare?
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-04-14 at 07:00 PM.

  7. #127
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I see your anecdotes (and seriously, what's the private equivalent to the DMV that you're comparing it against?), and raise you actual studies and facts.

    Mythbusters:
    'The private sector is superior'. Time to move on from this old dogma | Andrew Simms and Stephen Reid | Comment is free | theguardian.com
    And The Winner Is....The Public Sector | On the Commons

    And who cares which staff was nicer to you? How on earth do you think that's a factor in public or private enterprise?

    It wasn't just a matter of niceness. Nobody knows where medical records are but they pretend to and send me all over the hospital on a wild goose chase. One place I was sent the lady was on the phone, kept talking when I got there in what seemed to be a personal social conversation as I wait patiently. After she got off the phone, instead of asking could I be helped, she proceeded to read the newspaper for a few minutes, then I guess tired of me standing at her counter she finally asked "may I help you?" only to be sent on yet another fruitless trip to the other end of the hospital on another floor. It was a 2 hour lesson on government healthcare.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 03-04-14 at 07:00 PM.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  8. #128
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't put much credence in that thinking. It ignores the actual nature of healthcare. Few people buy cancer or being struck by lightening or being shot by a friend, relative, or enemy. But the care you need then has to be paid for. Much like when your house catches on fire. Firefighters put it out. I wonder how negotiation would go for that on the market? We all know that young people never live in homes that burn down, and they never have car accidents, or need the police. But they will need healthcare, sooner or later. And most won't be able to afford it.

    Of course, we could have a plan. Say a universal plan? :coffpap
    Sorry, but who I do business with and who I do not do business with is my business and my right to decide on my own terms. You are not involved and you do not have the right to be involved in my commerce decisions. It is not your call to say I need to do business with this person or that person or that group of people or that group of people over there. You are not involved and you do not have the right tell me what to do in my commerce decisions.

    This very simply concept like the concept of property escapes people like you for no good reason. In fact, my right to decide on these things is a property right. Yay property, the very foundation of all human rights.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-04-14 at 07:12 PM.

  9. #129
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It was an idiot exaggeration. Not much else.
    So controlling the decisions of property owners is not a violation of property rights? I will be sure to log that next to all the other things you don't understand about rights.

  10. #130
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    I want it to fail catastrophically (financially, not medically)...to teach people that big government NEVER works...it only makes things worse in the long run.

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