View Poll Results: Do you want Obamacare to Fail

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  • Yes

    42 39.62%
  • No

    54 50.94%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    3 2.83%
  • Chuck Norris

    7 6.60%
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Thread: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

  1. #111
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Who has to be acted on for all those things to come to pass?
    I consider a property rights violation to be an offense involving intent to defraud and false representation and obtaining property as a result of that misrepresentation.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  2. #112
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Good question.

    Bureaucracy as an entity is not my concern. The impersonal application of something as personal as health care by a bureaucratic system is a concern.

    My health care should be my choice, with the guidance of my physicians. Not the choice of an insurance company or a government agency.

    My insurance policy gives me and my doctor the choices of treatment. Source and amount of payment are the only choices where my insurance gets involved (although they do try to exceed that limitation regularly).

    I just got home from having an ultrasound. The cost of the procedure alone (not including doctor's fees), was $843.00. I had to pay the entire amount because of my deductible and it being early in the year. Under single payer, I may have not been allowed to have the procedure, since there may not be a mechanism for me to pay the costs directly, or even get approval to have the procedure from the government.

    For instance, I always try to go through the VA first. The VA disapproved the procedure. My private doctor ordered the procedure and I was scheduled to receive it. The VA refused to perform it. I had to go to a private medical imaging and radiologist group to have the procedure.

    My late father-in-law, and my mother-in-law had/have the same problems with Medicare. We have to have a separate private insurance policy as well as use our own funds to cover treatments that Medicare will not allow (look at the video X posted for prima facie evidence of this fact).

    The same happens to many in Canada that have to come to the US to have procedures that are not allowed by the Canadian single payer system.

    I don't want that here, not for me.

    You have the right to do as you wish. As for me? I prefer to have a voice of what happens to my own body.
    Well the single payer system does not allow something for the same reason it may not be be in the U.S., it is not approved yet or it is not covered as it is seen as unnecessary like cosmetic surgery. They would have allowed it, ultrasounds are fine, people in my family have had them at times. Also our single-payer system pays for people who have to go the U.S. for treatment not available here.

  3. #113
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Obamacare was a well designed law that will serve the purpose of the administration and those who want to "fundamentally transform America". While it's not going as well as many who supported it had hoped, when it does fail it will in all likelihood lead to single payer - if it lasts long enough. The "evil insurance companies" have been the target all along. Obama and his cohorts aiding him in destroying this country don't care about insuring the uninsured, they want to destroy the insurance companies and grab power.

    Let's say Obamacare is somehow able to hold on despite all it's failings (low sign-ups, especially from the younger generations who supported this President and his destructive ways and an essential component to the law actually working as everyone supporting the law saw it). This will only happen if the federal government is somehow able to keep propping up the insurance companies with subsidies (only because they have designed the law to make it difficult for insurance companies to succeed). How long before the line is trotted out that "we can't afford to keep subsidizing the insurance companies with taxpayer money"? I give it three years. This will lead to an even bigger power grab (the true intent of the law) and the federal government will completely take over with single-payer.

    You see, if the true intent was to provide insurance tho those that didn't have it this law never would have been passed. There were ways to go about doing that without destroying the healthcare industry and a major component of the economy.

    So in regards to the question in the OP, my answer would be that I want it to fail if it does so quickly. The longer it is allowed to destroy the economy, jobs and personal freedoms, the more likely we will land at the doorstep of single-payer which is something we really don't want to see - see Canada for example.
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

  4. #114
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You do know that's nonsense, right?
    Insanely long waits in line at the post office and DMV, a public school system more committed to the unions than the kids. I'm sure there are other examples.

    I have my own story with government healthcare. A while back a family member had a problem in its very early stages. The doctor could not make a definitive diagnosis at our hospital but there was a new advanced machine at the government run hospital and sent us over there just to have them take pictures. Since this was a government run hospital, it was where most people in town go who didn't have insurance. I can only guess the job security of having a government job coupled a clientele made up most of people who do not have the power to vote with their pocketbooks and take their business elsewhere. The arrogance, uncaring and condescending way we were treated by the hospital staff made a strong impression on my perception of government healthcare. It wasn't just a single person maybe having a bad day either but every encounter I had except one, who was an intern who had only been there a week or two. Yes they had a really nice facility and the best equipment, at least for what wee needed but in every other respect it was like I was at the post office or DMV.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  5. #115
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I consider a property rights violation to be an offense involving intent to defraud and false representation and obtaining property as a result of that misrepresentation.
    You really can't have property rights without the right to control and manage that property.

  6. #116
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Now, there's a decent argument that the failure of Obamacare could usher in something worse (or better, depending on your point of view - honestly, single payer scares the **** out of me). To be truthful, though, I'm not rooting for Obamacare. I didn't want it and the fact that "you could keep your insurance" had to be such a big part of getting support indicates to me, that a good many of us didn't want it and Obama knew that. Now, I don't know if it can ever fully go away, but presuming it could do you want Obamacare to fail?

    Give me a minute to attach the poll.
    Voted "Yes."

    Why in the world would I want a grossly substandard, ineptly, incompetently implemented (by a bunch of bungling, mind-numbed looney toons), monumental piece of dung-infused garbage legislation ("Oh, oh, but it's for the people, and their health! , and our sense of fairness, and for community, and to save money, and for choice, and we can keep our doctor, and our intentions were good, and because we love..., because we love..., and oh - what about the poor, cuz..., and those who don't have health insurance, and... did we say "love" enough?..." [seriously, gag me with all 2,500+ leftist doodoo good-ism impregnated pages of it now]), unconstitutional, progressive "we could care less what the people think" political power grab to succeed?

    And yeah, I want the chief incompetent for whom it's ingloriously but aptly named, and all his equally unqualified amateurs to fail right along with it.

    A more massive offense to all reason and common sense never existed.

    "...but that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Not.
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

    zoom zoom

  7. #117
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, generally, yes. That is why we require government to break past the incentive structures of Tragedies of the Commons and provide them.
    The government providing them is a public good.....


    So all businesses are simply owned by their workers?
    Essentially, yes.


  8. #118
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Insanely long waits in line at the post office and DMV, a public school system more committed to the unions than the kids. I'm sure there are other examples.

    I have my own story with government healthcare. A while back a family member had a problem in its very early stages. The doctor could not make a definitive diagnosis at our hospital but there was a new advanced machine at the government run hospital and sent us over there just to have them take pictures. Since this was a government run hospital, it was where most people in town go who didn't have insurance. I can only guess the job security of having a government job coupled a clientele made up most of people who do not have the power to vote with their pocketbooks and take their business elsewhere. The arrogance, uncaring and condescending way we were treated by the hospital staff made a strong impression on my perception of government healthcare. It wasn't just a single person maybe having a bad day either but every encounter I had except one, who was an intern who had only been there a week or two. Yes they had a really nice facility and the best equipment, at least for what wee needed but in every other respect it was like I was at the post office or DMV.
    I see your anecdotes (and seriously, what's the private equivalent to the DMV that you're comparing it against?), and raise you actual studies and facts.

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    And who cares which staff was nicer to you? How on earth do you think that's a factor in public or private enterprise?
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  9. #119
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Public goods result from theft, and those that provide the public good do so with the prospect of profiting from the work.
    In your opinion of course its "theft".
    But what you stated does not mean it goes against basic human interaction....




    I can't imagine what vital thing you wouldn't want managed by the government.
    Electricity, water, waste, natural resources, some components of housing, education, and basic things they manage right now come up to mind.






    There is nothing to debate. It was nonsense back in the 19th century to be talking of public education, and it's nonsense now to be talking of healthcare.
    Just cuz you claim there is not debate does not mean there literally is no debate cuz infact we have been debating it...


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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    In your opinion of course its "theft".
    But what you stated does not mean it goes against basic human interaction....
    It's my opinion it is theft? What do you call taking someones property without the owners permission? Theft.


    Electricity, water, waste, natural resources, some components of housing, education, and basic things they manage right now come up to mind.
    So more or less everything deemed vital they will either supply or be involved in. You should be pretty happy with the current system then.

    Just cuz you claim there is not debate does not mean there literally is no debate cuz infact we have been debating it...
    We can talk about whatever you please to talk about, but that doesn't mean it is open to debate.

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