View Poll Results: Do you want Obamacare to Fail

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  • Yes

    42 39.62%
  • No

    54 50.94%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    3 2.83%
  • Chuck Norris

    7 6.60%
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Thread: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

  1. #91
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    I have to agree, that one of the aspects of the ACA that's unappealing is making the middle class pay for care they don't need or want. Somehow, they should make the plans more flexible, so certain groups don't feel like they're being penalized for not being impoverished. Take more from the Insurance Companies and wealthy employers pockets, instead of employees. Create regulations that allow for Hospitals and Providers to negotiate for better pricing from medical suppliers.

    Wishing a plan that has some good aspects to fail, when the Healthcare system itself was already flailing isn't helpful. Asking for changes and alterations, seems more reasonable and cooperative.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Wishing a plan that has some good aspects to fail…
    I must have missed the part where anyone was discussing any plan that had any good aspects. I thought we were talking about ObamaCare.
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    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    I must have missed the part where anyone was discussing any plan that had any good aspects. I thought we were talking about ObamaCare.
    Are you presenting dense comments on purpose?

    • No annual or lifetime limits on healthcare.
    • Insurance companies can't drop you when you are sick or for making a mistake on your application.
    • You can't be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
    • You have the right to quickly appeal any health insurance company decision.
    • You have the right to get an easy-to-understand summary about a health plan’s benefits and coverage.
    • Young Adults can stay on their parent's plan until 26.
    • A large improvement to women's health services.
    • Reforms to the healthcare industry to cut wasteful spending.
    • Better care and protections for seniors.
    • New preventative Services at no-out-of pocket costs.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    I "want it to fail" the same way I'd want my 1-6 football team to "Fail".

    In the analogy, you don't see any hope to actually turn the season around. As such, you'd rather bite the short term bullet and see the team lose most of the rest of their games as opposed to winning a few unexpected ones and winding up with a middling record hovering around .500. By "failing" the rest of the season you end up with a high draft position and a more favorable schedule next year. You take the short term pain in hopes for something much, much better in the future.

    The same goes for Obamacare. I don't see any real hope of it "turning around". As such, I'd rather take the pain of it being clunkly launched and a tormultuous period after it's repealed because I think it'd lead to a better situation in the future.

    Now, if my 1-6 team suddenly gets a fire under it's ass and somehow starts winning game after game after game then I'm still going to cheer for them. And if they inexplicably make the playoffs, I'll be rooting for them. But I wouldn't be expecting that to happen, and I'd be nervously cheering until it became clear that this team actually WAS capable of making some noise.

    Similarly, when a good thing happens regarding Obamacare I'll still be happy about that instance even if I'm down on the whole thing. And if somehow over time it actually starts looking like it could be a good and worth while system, then perhaps I'll come around to it.

    But at the moment...absolutely, I'd like it to fail because I think there's a better option for the long term health (no pun intended) of the country. But if it doesn't fail and it actually succeeds and is good for the country then I'd be happy to be wrong. But since I don't think that's going to be the case, I'd rather see it be done with and replaced over languishing in meidocrity for years upon years.

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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I "want it to fail" the same way I'd want my 1-6 football team to "Fail".

    In the analogy, you don't see any hope to actually turn the season around. As such, you'd rather bite the short term bullet and see the team lose most of the rest of their games as opposed to winning a few unexpected ones and winding up with a middling record hovering around .500. By "failing" the rest of the season you end up with a high draft position and a more favorable schedule next year. You take the short term pain in hopes for something much, much better in the future.

    The same goes for Obamacare. I don't see any real hope of it "turning around". As such, I'd rather take the pain of it being clunkly launched and a tormultuous period after it's repealed because I think it'd lead to a better situation in the future.

    Now, if my 1-6 team suddenly gets a fire under it's ass and somehow starts winning game after game after game then I'm still going to cheer for them. And if they inexplicably make the playoffs, I'll be rooting for them. But I wouldn't be expecting that to happen, and I'd be nervously cheering until it became clear that this team actually WAS capable of making some noise.

    Similarly, when a good thing happens regarding Obamacare I'll still be happy about that instance even if I'm down on the whole thing. And if somehow over time it actually starts looking like it could be a good and worth while system, then perhaps I'll come around to it.

    But at the moment...absolutely, I'd like it to fail because I think there's a better option for the long term health (no pun intended) of the country. But if it doesn't fail and it actually succeeds and is good for the country then I'd be happy to be wrong. But since I don't think that's going to be the case, I'd rather see it be done with and replaced over languishing in meidocrity for years upon years.
    So what's the Tim Tebow equivalent for Obamacare? Veto of the individual mandate?

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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I "want it to fail" the same way I'd want my 1-6 football team to "Fail".

    In the analogy, you don't see any hope to actually turn the season around. As such, you'd rather bite the short term bullet and see the team lose most of the rest of their games as opposed to winning a few unexpected ones and winding up with a middling record hovering around .500. By "failing" the rest of the season you end up with a high draft position and a more favorable schedule next year. You take the short term pain in hopes for something much, much better in the future.

    The same goes for Obamacare. I don't see any real hope of it "turning around". As such, I'd rather take the pain of it being clunkly launched and a tormultuous period after it's repealed because I think it'd lead to a better situation in the future.

    Now, if my 1-6 team suddenly gets a fire under it's ass and somehow starts winning game after game after game then I'm still going to cheer for them. And if they inexplicably make the playoffs, I'll be rooting for them. But I wouldn't be expecting that to happen, and I'd be nervously cheering until it became clear that this team actually WAS capable of making some noise.

    Similarly, when a good thing happens regarding Obamacare I'll still be happy about that instance even if I'm down on the whole thing. And if somehow over time it actually starts looking like it could be a good and worth while system, then perhaps I'll come around to it.

    But at the moment...absolutely, I'd like it to fail because I think there's a better option for the long term health (no pun intended) of the country. But if it doesn't fail and it actually succeeds and is good for the country then I'd be happy to be wrong. But since I don't think that's going to be the case, I'd rather see it be done with and replaced over languishing in meidocrity for years upon years.

    But it seems like you're building from the bottom up, with a much further distance to success with that analogy. I understand the need to start over, if there's no signs of improvement but that doesn't seem to be the case in this instance. Wouldn't it be easier to build upon a team with some good players and management, than start completely from scratch?

    Unless there's more cooperation from both sides of the isle, without gamesmanship for political advantages, then the health system is probably doomed to mediocrity, due to our leaders, not the people. Look at how long both sides have let Medicare, languish and dive in debt without any real reform. If the members from both parties would put pressure on the powers to be, to make more compromises for the welfare of the health system as a whole, it would be fixed over night. That might not seem realistic but it is possible for like minded people on both sides to push for it.

    How can anyone want to repeal the whole thing without any alternatives in place? To me, that's like being abandoned on an island with no real opportunities to escape. Waiting for rescue and signaling for passing ships hasn't worked for years and my health and resources are deteriorating. Then I come up with building a raft to leave, because I'm surely going to die a slow death, staying on the island. It's not a great plan or without a lot of dangers and low success rate, but it's better than nothing.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    How exactly does single payer scare you? Are you terrified of communally paid-for roads? Public parks? Are things only okay if there's a higher class profiting from it at the expense of a lower class?
    Government funded services in America have a horrible reputation as being inefficient, sub-standard, bureaucratic and are often absent any attempt at treating the customer like they're valued. I'm sure you've had horror stories of of your own.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Roads! That thing only government can do.
    In fairness I think there are others as well. Police, fire fighters, the military, most state colleges and universities.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  9. #99
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    Yes. I do not want the government requiring people to give money to private corporations to be defined as a success. It is a door that was opened that I want closed.

    Would you want a program of forced racial segregation to "succeed?" I see ObamaCare as fundamentally wrong for the reason I gave and therefore, success is not possible.

  10. #100
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    Re: Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

    I voted "yes", I do want Obamacare to fail. Even though there are a few positive components to it, those are overwhelmed by the negative components of what was a horribly ill conceived, disastrous piece of legislation that is destroying our free market healthcare system, takes away even more of our unalienable rights, and brings us closer to totalitarian government. When the government controls all of our healthcare, which I do believe is the ultimate goal, it will hold ever so much more power over us to do anything to us it wants.

    The Founders gave us a government in which the government was to enforce just enough regulation to allow the several states to function as one nation, the government would secure our rights, and then the government, at least at the federal level, would leave us alone to govern ourselves and form whatever sort of societies we wished to have.

    Obamacare is the largest abomination and violation of that concept I have seen in my increasingly lengthy lifetime. It should be repealed in total.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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