View Poll Results: Is Putin "in another world" as Angela Merkel of Germany claims?

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  • yes: he thinks he is Peter the Great -clearly delusional

    5 13.51%
  • yes; thinks he can play with the world without real consequences

    6 16.22%
  • no: he is playing 'realpolitik' ; thoughtful gambits

    19 51.35%
  • no: he does what he wants, without any consequences

    7 18.92%
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Thread: Is Putin "in another world"

  1. #1
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    Is Putin "in another world"

    The Russian occupation of Crimea has challenged Mr. Obama as has no other international crisis, and at its heart, the advice seemed to pose the same question: Is Mr. Obama tough enough to take on the former K.G.B. colonel in the Kremlin? It is no easy task
    . Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany told Mr. Obama by telephone on Sunday that after speaking with Mr. Putin she was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said.
    “In another world,” she said.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/wo...ref=world&_r=0

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    Re: Is Putin "in another world"

    just for fun. reading Merkle's comments

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    Re: Is Putin "in another world"

    There's no doubt Obama lives in another world. Mostly his own mind.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Is Putin "in another world"

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    just for fun. reading Merkle's comments
    Yeah... though the NyTimes is hardly a good source of info in regards to this event or Putin. I didn't see any coverage that they made on the event that left me thinking they actually understand what's happening. I suggest spiegel.de, reuters, bbc, deutschewelle or even cnn to some degree.

    As to Putin... while he does use the Church in Russia to gain political support, he isn't particularly religious. You don't see him invoking God or Christianity in his political statements, at least not nearly as much as, say, american politicians do. He just defends Church interests and in return, the Church supports him, or whoever is in power.

    He may be a bit out of touch with reality, but he is still in touch enough to understand how far he can push. And Crimea is an easy push because Ukraine is a push-over. And I am fairly distressed... and angry and discouraged over the recent events, but I don't think Putin is a madman. I don't make that mistake.

    Fallen made a good argument some time ago and I will reinvoke it. He said that Putin is trying to make a new "glue" for Russia to bind the country and the people together. And I understand what he says by that. After nearly a century of communism and a tremedous loss in both prestige... and some troubles early on with Chechnya, there are identity problems as to what it means to be Russian and what the country should be going for. So he's doing what he can do to create that new glue, that new identity to bind people together.

    But as I also said... even if Russian identity is now a bit "shaky" it's still a lot more identifiable than to what being "ukrainian" means... because Ukrainians have been under the tsarist boot for centuries than under communism which was quite brutal... and even after 1989 they were basically a sattelite...

    I don't know if I can fully express what this is, in all it's complexity, without filling a wall text. It's a common problem in Eastern Europe. Communism tried to create the "new man", a new human being that is void of greed or anything that is considered " capitalist desires" and the re-education programs were inhumane, because the "new man" that communism tried to create was actually, not human at all. So you have half of Europe under half a century of communism and Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and other nations under communism for almost a century. It's hard to imagine this if you're say, an american. The identity of "american" and what it means was NEVER under attack by external forces. It was never repressed by someone else and tried to be replaced with whatever suited that more powerful entity. Whatever changes happened in what "american" is, happened because americans decided that.

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    Re: Is Putin "in another world"

    To quote on of my favorite movies, "Russians son, don't take a dump without a plan."

    He's got a plan, he's picked his moment not by mistake or situations but because he's planned this for a long time, and will now execute that plan. He's smart, calculating and a strong leader - if he wants Ukraine and Crimea he will be allowed to take them - no one is going to step in front of him and block his plan. The only thing the rest of the world can do is try and implement economic sanctions and isolate Russia effectively bringing back the cold war.

    To the US President: The 1980's are on the phone and guess what they want to talk about? It's not al-qaeda...

    Obama: The 1980s Called, They Want Their Policy Back - DailyFinance
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Is Putin "in another world"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Yeah... though the NyTimes is hardly a good source of info in regards to this event or Putin. I didn't see any coverage that they made on the event that left me thinking they actually understand what's happening. I suggest spiegel.de, reuters, bbc, deutschewelle or even cnn to some degree.

    As to Putin... while he does use the Church in Russia to gain political support, he isn't particularly religious. You don't see him invoking God or Christianity in his political statements, at least not nearly as much as, say, american politicians do. He just defends Church interests and in return, the Church supports him, or whoever is in power.

    He may be a bit out of touch with reality, but he is still in touch enough to understand how far he can push. And Crimea is an easy push because Ukraine is a push-over. And I am fairly distressed... and angry and discouraged over the recent events, but I don't think Putin is a madman. I don't make that mistake.

    Fallen made a good argument some time ago and I will reinvoke it. He said that Putin is trying to make a new "glue" for Russia to bind the country and the people together. And I understand what he says by that. After nearly a century of communism and a tremedous loss in both prestige... and some troubles early on with Chechnya, there are identity problems as to what it means to be Russian and what the country should be going for. So he's doing what he can do to create that new glue, that new identity to bind people together.

    But as I also said... even if Russian identity is now a bit "shaky" it's still a lot more identifiable than to what being "ukrainian" means... because Ukrainians have been under the tsarist boot for centuries than under communism which was quite brutal... and even after 1989 they were basically a sattelite...

    I don't know if I can fully express what this is, in all it's complexity, without filling a wall text. It's a common problem in Eastern Europe. Communism tried to create the "new man", a new human being that is void of greed or anything that is considered " capitalist desires" and the re-education programs were inhumane, because the "new man" that communism tried to create was actually, not human at all. So you have half of Europe under half a century of communism and Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and other nations under communism for almost a century. It's hard to imagine this if you're say, an american. The identity of "american" and what it means was NEVER under attack by external forces. It was never repressed by someone else and tried to be replaced with whatever suited that more powerful entity. Whatever changes happened in what "american" is, happened because americans decided that.
    thanks, as usual. Very detailed, very helpful. Always worth reading your posts. Yes the NYT's is much -ends to be an apologist for Obama.
    There was a part in theer about Afghanistan " Obama ending the war - but with drone strikes and his surge", I found paradoxical..might just be me, don't want to go off on a tangent

    anyways. Since I very much respect your opinion, I also read "the Baltic States are next". Do you the Baltic states are in any danger?

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    Re: Is Putin "in another world"

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    The Russian occupation of Crimea has challenged Mr. Obama as has no other international crisis, and at its heart, the advice seemed to pose the same question: Is Mr. Obama tough enough to take on the former K.G.B. colonel in the Kremlin? It is no easy task
    . Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany told Mr. Obama by telephone on Sunday that after speaking with Mr. Putin she was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said.
    “In another world,” she said.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/wo...ref=world&_r=0



    Mrs Merkel is a very intelligent lady, but on this one, she's wrong.

    Who is going to kick the Russians out of the Ukraine? Any ideas on that?

    The Russians have more legitimate reasons to be in the Ukraine than the USA had to invade Iraq.

    Putin is in this world and he knows what he's doing.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 03-03-14 at 10:03 AM.

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    Re: Is Putin "in another world"

    I didn't vote, because non of the options is right, they are not even serious.
    Last week's survey shows that 69% Russians support Putin, if you were in his position, you would do the same thing unless you think yourself "the world leader" instead of Russian leader, or a coward president.
    The Russians prefer to choose a strong leader than a politically correct one.

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    Re: Is Putin "in another world"

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    thanks, as usual. Very detailed, very helpful. Always worth reading your posts. Yes the NYT's is much -ends to be an apologist for Obama.
    There was a part in theer about Afghanistan " Obama ending the war - but with drone strikes and his surge", I found paradoxical..might just be me, don't want to go off on a tangent

    anyways. Since I very much respect your opinion, I also read "the Baltic States are next". Do you the Baltic states are in any danger?
    No, I don't.

    There is no Ribbentrop-Molotov pact this time around so Putin won't be doing a, ehm, "baltic mutual assistance treaty" especially since they're all part of the EU.

    But you know,until 4 days ago I didn't believe Putin would send troops in Crimea, so I was wrong... I still don't believe Putin will invade eastern Ukraine and take over 3-4 of the major Oblasts like Khargiv or Donestks or Luhanska who are majority Russians(in 2 of those you already have pro-Russian supporters storm the public buildings and putting Russian flags up there, basically very similar to what happened in Ukriane before the Russians went in)... but i may be wrong. Khargiv is one of the more economically powerful regions in Ukraine, I think 3rd or 4th.

    But no to the Baltic invasion and a possibly-but-not-really on an invasion in Eastern Ukraine.

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    Re: Is Putin "in another world"

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Mrs Merkel is a very intelligent lady, but on this one, she's wrong.

    Who is going to kick the Russians out of the Ukraine? Any ideas on that?

    The Russians have more legitimate reasons to be in the Ukraine than the USA had to invade Iraq.

    Putin is in this world and he knows what he's doing.
    Well... even if they had no legitimate reason, as you said... this is completely true.

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