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Is Putin "in another world"

Is Putin "in another world" as Angela Merkel of Germany claims?

  • yes: he thinks he is Peter the Great -clearly delusional

    Votes: 3 10.0%
  • yes; thinks he can play with the world without real consequences

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • no: he is playing 'realpolitik' ; thoughtful gambits

    Votes: 17 56.7%
  • no: he does what he wants, without any consequences

    Votes: 5 16.7%

  • Total voters
    30
I don't think Putin is that brilliant because he is in the process of turning the Ukraine into another Chechnya.

I'm sure he's aware of partisans - Russia has had them for a long while but the difference here is the Ukraine is not a Muslim state whereas Chechnya is. Ukraine is mostly Ukrainian Orthodox with some smattering of Catholics. There may still be partisan fighting and bombings but somehow I'm not seeing another Chechnya - at least not yet. I also doubt he will keep his military there and nation build. Someone on DP said it today, they'll just install a new leader and government and the military will leave.
 
The Russian occupation of Crimea has challenged Mr. Obama as has no other international crisis, and at its heart, the advice seemed to pose the same question: Is Mr. Obama tough enough to take on the former K.G.B. colonel in the Kremlin? It is no easy task
. Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany told Mr. Obama by telephone on Sunday that after speaking with Mr. Putin she was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said.
“In another world,” she said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/w...ks-to-rein-in-russia.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0

Considering the people of Crimea are more than 58% Russian, less that 25% Ukrainian, and welcome what has happened, who are we to force our media tainted moral views on the situation?
 
I'm sure he's aware of partisans - Russia has had them for a long while but the difference here is the Ukraine is not a Muslim state whereas Chechnya is. Ukraine is mostly Ukrainian Orthodox with some smattering of Catholics. There may still be partisan fighting and bombings but somehow I'm not seeing another Chechnya - at least not yet.

10% of the ethnic population of Crimea are Tatar, and they are Muslim. They are also well organized.
 
10% of the ethnic population of Crimea are Tatar, and they are Muslim. They are also well organized.

CIA Factbook identifies the following:

Ukrainian Orthodox - Kyiv Patriarchate 50.4%, Ukrainian Orthodox - Moscow Patriarchate 26.1%, Ukrainian Greek Catholic 8%, Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox 7.2%, Roman Catholic 2.2%, Protestant 2.2%, Jewish 0.6%, other 3.2% (2006 est.)

If there's a better estimate than 2006 can you link it?
 
Who is going to kick the Russians out of the Ukraine? Any ideas on that?


Umm... The Ukrainians?

Its not real easy to hold on to a nation that doesnt want you. Ask Bush about that. Thats why you wont see Russia go past Crimea. And thats why you wont see a land grab by Russia - just protection for the Crimean Tatars to have a independent state that allows Russia to station troops and her Navy there.
 
The Russian occupation of Crimea has challenged Mr. Obama as has no other international crisis, and at its heart, the advice seemed to pose the same question: Is Mr. Obama tough enough to take on the former K.G.B. colonel in the Kremlin? It is no easy task
. Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany told Mr. Obama by telephone on Sunday that after speaking with Mr. Putin she was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said.
“In another world,” she said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/w...ks-to-rein-in-russia.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0

We are in another world. The US is leading from behind now. Welcome to the New World where the U.S. has decided that that hegemony stuff was sort of a pain in the tuckus, and distracting from the need to micro-regulate whether or not people's insurance companies gave them birth control or not - Russian invasions of the Ukraine and endless civil war in Syria are just some of the features.
 
10% of the ethnic population of Crimea are Tatar, and they are Muslim. They are also well organized.
But organized for what cause?

I thought their number was over 12%, but the real concern is this... Will the new Russia treat them as good or better than the Ukraine does? They were not treated well before the wall fell.
 
CIA Factbook identifies the following:



If there's a better estimate than 2006 can you link it?

Here's somthing from 2012

( if the link does not work, blame the fact I am posting from a mobile phone)

Ukraine

Government agencies and independent think tanks estimate the Muslim population at 500,000, although some Muslim leaders put the number at two million. According to government figures, the majority are Crimean Tatars, numbering an estimated 300,000 and constituting the third-largest ethnic group in Crimea. The Evangelical Baptist Union of Ukraine is the largest Protestant community. Other Protestant groups include Pentecostals, Seventh-day Adventists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvinists, Methodists, and Presbyterians. According to the most recent government census data from 2001, there are an estimated 103,600 Jews in the country; however, some local Jewish leaders estimate the number of persons of Jewish heritage to be as high as 370,000.
 
But organized for what cause?

I thought their number was over 12%, but the real concern is this... Will the new Russia treat them as good or better than the Ukraine does? They were not treated well before the wall fell.

The tarters would prefer the Ukrainians over the russians
 
Here's somthing from 2012

( if the link does not work, blame the fact I am posting from a mobile phone)

Ukraine

I think it's ballpark ... from your same link it's identifying 0.9% Muslim. 1% of 45.6 million is about 4.5 million. Whereas from your link:

In a 2010 national survey by the Razumkov Center, an independent public policy think tank, 68 percent of respondents self-identify as Christian Orthodox, 7.6 percent as Greek-Catholics, 1.9 percent as Protestants, 0.9 percent as Muslims, and 0.4 percent as Roman Catholics. Another 7.2 percent identify as “simply a Christian,” and 13.2 percent do not belong to any religious group.

Let's just say 4.5 million muslims. I'm still doubtful but time will tell...
 
CIA Factbook identifies the following:



If there's a better estimate than 2006 can you link it?

Well, the Ukrainian census of 2001 has different numbers. Maybe because of the way it's broken down?

The site wiki links: 2001*Ukraine Census

Breakdown according to wiki:

Autonomous Republic of Crimea - 2,024.0 (100%)

Russians - 1,180.4 (58.3%)
Ukrainians - 492.2 (24.3%)
Crimean Tatars - 243.4 (12.0%)
Belorussians - 29.2 (1.4%)

Sevastopol' - 377.2 (100%)

Russians - 270.0 (71.6%)
Ukrainians - 84.4 (22.4%)
Belorussians - 5.8 (1.6%)
 
Yea, he is.

But, then again, it's Putin.

It's hard to be surprised with him anymore.
 
10% of the ethnic population of Crimea are Tatar, and they are Muslim. They are also well organized.

Arm them. Sniper rifles. Expiration date software and GPS location software functionality limited shouldered surface-to-air low altitude missiles. RPGs capable of piercing Russian armored vehicles. Use 3rd party brokers. Deny direct involvement.
 
Arm them. Sniper rifles. Expiration date software and GPS location software functionality limited shouldered surface-to-air low altitude missiles. RPGs capable of piercing Russian armored vehicles. Use 3rd party brokers. Deny direct involvement.

Let Russia wallow in its own mistakes.
 
This issue is not Crimea. It is future nuclear proliferation.
 
Let Russia wallow in its own mistakes.

The issue is future nuclear proliferation, not the Crimea. My messages states how we could insure it is a mistake. We could inflame the entire region to the West and South of Russia, plus within Russia. Then it would be "a mistake." Unless we get Russia out of the Crimea expect a world of rapidly increasing world totalitarian thugs with nuclear weapons. It would be a joke a this point to even pretend we have a reason for Iran not to accelerate its nuclear program ASAP, as should every country with a responsible government.
 
This issue is not Crimea. It is future nuclear proliferation.

I don't see how.

It appears to me Russia is supporting the succession of Crimea from the Ukraine.
 
The Russian occupation of Crimea has challenged Mr. Obama as has no other international crisis, and at its heart, the advice seemed to pose the same question: Is Mr. Obama tough enough to take on the former K.G.B. colonel in the Kremlin? It is no easy task
. Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany told Mr. Obama by telephone on Sunday that after speaking with Mr. Putin she was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said.
“In another world,” she said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/w...ks-to-rein-in-russia.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0

The article had this in it. I think it has merit.
Some regional specialists said Mr. Obama should ignore the talk-tough chorus and focus instead on defusing a crisis that could get much worse.
I would spout realistic tough talk, talk that I knew I could back up but stay away from talk that everyone knows I couldn’t. Then offer to mediate sort of like Putin did on Syria.

Is Putin mad or out of this world, no he isn’t. I think he is a calculating SOB and knows exactly what he is doing. The Ukraine has only been a nation since 1991 and is probably more Russian than most of Russia that lies in Asia. I think one has to be realistic.
 
No, its the opposite, its the western politicians that are in another world, Putin and the Russians are doing what they have always been doing- protecting his nation's interests and he has been doing it ever since he came to power: he was part of the Chechen conflict and his victory there made him president, all the way to the Georgia conflict and now this. The west needs to bring back Cold War politicians who are tough and can stand up to him if they want peace and stability in Europe.
 
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