View Poll Results: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

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  • NATO

    18 23.68%
  • UN

    7 9.21%
  • EU

    10 13.16%
  • USA

    11 14.47%
  • Russia

    10 13.16%
  • Ukraine

    9 11.84%
  • Nobody

    33 43.42%
  • Santa / Ded Moroz

    3 3.95%
  • Other

    3 3.95%
  • None of my business

    11 14.47%
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Thread: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

  1. #31
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    We need to leave those people alone. If Russia wants to help suppress the illegal coup d'état, with the agreement of the legitimate leader of the Ukraine, there actions are justified and they should not be obstructed.

  2. #32
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Sadly I think we're going to make idiots out of ourselves before we but out. (deja vu anyone?)

  3. #33
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Now that the tension around Ukraine is rising, who do you think is justified sending troops in Crimea, Ukraine?

    Putin proposes to send Russian armed forces to Ukraine | Reuters
    Ideally NATO would with European countries leading the charge. Russia's perpetual disregard for territory pretty much destroys the point of having treaties or international forums, since those things exit specifically to avoid events like this.

  4. #34
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Ideally NATO would with European countries leading the charge. Russia's perpetual disregard for territorial sovereignty pretty much destroys the point of having any system of dialogue.
    Because America and Europe have never infringed on anyone's sovereignty. Ever.

    Anyone who disagrees is a Communist. And they hate America. And they're fat.

  5. #35
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Because America and Europe have never infringed on anyone's sovereignty. Ever.

    Anyone who disagrees is a Communist. And they hate America. And they're fat.
    I'd have to weigh specific cases. Saddam's Iraq attacked Kuwait and used chemical weapons, which threatened to send the entire Middle East into chaos and create an international energy crisis. Iran's nationalization of British-Persian Petroleum is a tricky issue where all parties challenged each other with extreme power grabs.

  6. #36
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    While there are, of course, American interests in having Ukraine more in the Western sphere of influence than the Russian, I'm more inclined to let the EU deal with this. Europe in general has been very vocal about the "barbarism" of the US in its military ventures, while at the same time benefiting from it. Perhaps, just this once, it'd be fun to see them have to deal with something using military force, simply so that they recall that it's necessary from time to time.

    So who "should"? Well, whoever finds it in their interests to do so, and find that in their analysis the expected reward surpassed the expected risk. That's just simple neorealism. But "should" the US get involved. For long game purposes, no. Remind Europe that the US isn't necessarily beholden to it, and that it must be ready to do that which it villifies the US for.

    Could be fun.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Send me, damnit. I could use the work.

  8. #38
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    See, that's the problem with waging wars against vastly inferior militaries for the last forty years: people have gotten to thinking wars are really easy and that the worst we'll have to encounter is guerrilla fighting after the three day post-bombing high. Only an increasingly aging generation can remember a time when we faced off against a worthy adversary.
    Absolutely. We in the West like our wars short, clinical and incurring no casualties on our sides, this attitude has worked brilliantly against unsophisticated 3rd world countries but now that we have the prospect of going up against a real enemy we turn chicken, and rightfully so- what Russia is doing has no direct threat against us and so this global policeman attitude has got to stop. We are like the big kid beating up all the little kids and telling everybody what to do but when faced by another big kid we turn tail.

  9. #39
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Absolutely. We in the West like our wars short, clinical and incurring no casualties on our sides, this attitude has worked brilliantly against unsophisticated 3rd world countries but now that we have the prospect of going up against a real enemy we turn chicken, and rightfully so- what Russia is doing has no direct threat against us and so this global policeman attitude has got to stop. We are like the big kid beating up all the little kids and telling everybody what to do but when faced by another big kid we turn tail.
    The problem with this viewpoint is you're looking at war like some cosmic test of manhood. It's just risk v reward (or should be, sometimes leaders can fall into the problem that you just exhibited). Of course when the risk is lesser, the rewards don't need to be as great, and action is more likely to occur. When the risk is greater, the rewards need to be greater, and thus action is less likely to occur.

    It's not about nation-states being "tough" or being "pussies" lol. It should be viewed through a rational analytic process. Not through analogies about recess.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Because America and Europe have never infringed on anyone's sovereignty. Ever.

    Anyone who disagrees is a Communist. And they hate America. And they're fat.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Absolutely. We in the West like our wars short, clinical and incurring no casualties on our sides, this attitude has worked brilliantly against unsophisticated 3rd world countries but now that we have the prospect of going up against a real enemy we turn chicken, and rightfully so- what Russia is doing has no direct threat against us and so this global policeman attitude has got to stop. We are like the big kid beating up all the little kids and telling everybody what to do but when faced by another big kid we turn tail.
    It's more like a bunch of little kids are ganging up on each other and the United States beats them up until they stop. For some reason the role regional rivalries play in spurring conflict get lost in the narrative of USA WANTS OIL (so do the rest of us, that's why we're allies and economic partners).

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