View Poll Results: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

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  • NATO

    18 23.68%
  • UN

    7 9.21%
  • EU

    10 13.16%
  • USA

    11 14.47%
  • Russia

    10 13.16%
  • Ukraine

    9 11.84%
  • Nobody

    33 43.42%
  • Santa / Ded Moroz

    3 3.95%
  • Other

    3 3.95%
  • None of my business

    11 14.47%
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Thread: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

  1. #11
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Appeasement and the threat of aggression to international stability exist as much today as they did during World War II. If they didn't exist in 1939 there also wouldn't have been a WWII.

    That being said, this should be a primarily European Union responsibility, seeing as Ukraine is in their own backyard and that the revolution was pro-EU. We should aid them, especially if Russia backs a separatist movement in Crimea, but we should only send in troops (through NATO) if Russia makes incursions beyond Crimea.
    And this...is why certain ex-Soviet blocs joined NATO when they had the chance. To think we'd allow Russia to invade countries we are bound by treaty to defend is irrational.

  2. #12
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    No! No "exception." You cannot remove mutually assured nuclear destruction from the equation!



    Complete apples and oranges. NATO is an armed-to-the-teeth organization specifically tasked with the objective of stopping further Soviet incursions. There was no such military pre-WWII created for the purpose of stopping German transgressions.
    I apologize for my extremely poorly written response. i had just woken up and my mind was not as sharp as it could have been ha!

    Regardless, while MAD was not formalized in a given doctrine, it was recognized and widely believed that another world war would lead to the destruction of the human race. not immediately and neatly as MAD would either, people would die from starvation as much as they would from the fighting. Trench warfare given higher levels of technology would have lead to the endless meat grinder that WW1 had turned into for a number of years, but with higher tech it would have been unbreakable. that was what people were so afraid of, and that is why Appeasement was a perfect political alternative to actually honoring the treaties that were the predecessors to the agreements that lead to NATO. the proto-Nato was useless because it didn't have the political backing it needed when the time came to destroy the now aggressive germany before it became unstoppable.

    Then there is the league of nations... that was just... that was just terrible. it literally did nothing before it got disbanded.
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    Good Luck

  3. #13
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Despite all rhetoric, Russia is not a backwards dictatorship. It's their business.

  4. #14
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    If Russia gets involved to try and support a Kremlin government then the US, UN and NATO need to get involved to stop them. Ukraine needs to work out the situation, but Russia should be stopped from using their military to try and force the outcome that they want.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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  5. #15
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    The bigger question is about the Crimea itself. It has a majority Russian population and the only reason it ended up in Ukranian hands is because of bizarre sentimentality from Krushchev and because Yeltsin was asleep at the wheel in '92. I wouldn't actually have a problem with the Crimea becoming part of the Federation, the bigger issue is setting precedents for violent expansionism. The situation could be resolved by trading the peninsula in a legitimate transfer of power for say a 30 year sweetheart natural gas deal.

  6. #16
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The bigger question is about the Crimea itself. It has a majority Russian population and the only reason it ended up in Ukranian hands is because of bizarre sentimentality from Krushchev and because Yeltsin was asleep at the wheel in '92. I wouldn't actually have a problem with the Crimea becoming part of the Federation, the bigger issue is setting precedents for violent expansionism. The situation could be resolved by trading the peninsula in a legitimate transfer of power for say a 30 year sweetheart natural gas deal.
    You don't get it do you?

    It's not just Crimea. The Russian army is going to enter all of ukraine from the eastern border. You won't just see Crimea become part of Russian federation, you might just see 1/3rd of Ukraine get annexed too.

    Ofc, there's nothing anyone can do. There isn't. If the west sends troops in there, it's going to be catastrophic.

  7. #17
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    No one should send troops. And as I said in the other thread, this one needs to be addressed by the EU, not us.

  8. #18
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    You don't get it do you?

    It's not just Crimea. The Russian army is going to enter all of ukraine from the eastern border. You won't just see Crimea become part of Russian federation, you might just see 1/3rd of Ukraine get annexed too.

    Ofc, there's nothing anyone can do. There isn't. If the west sends troops in there, it's going to be catastrophic.
    You have absolutely no idea what the Russian plan is. The possibility exists of course, but right now we are operating without information. In the 2008 war with Georgia, the Russians did not occupy any additional land beyond Ossetia and Abkhazia.

  9. #19
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    And this...is why certain ex-Soviet blocs joined NATO when they had the chance.
    Ah, I wasn't sure what you meant by this (and your previous comments about NATO) at first. Thanks for clarifying.

    To think we'd allow Russia to invade countries we are bound by treaty to defend is irrational.
    Yeah, I imagine Russia was upset when the Baltic States joined NATO. I think, however, that we came dangerously close to abandoning our allies when we barely squeaked in protest at the Russian invasion of Georgia.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

  10. #20
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    Re: Who should send troops in Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Despite all rhetoric, Russia is not a backwards dictatorship. It's their business.
    Russia is a repressive despotism that's at odds with our interests. We cannot allow them to dictate the future of a European country that's close to becoming a member of the EU and NATO, and we cannot abandon the idea of territorial integrity if they try to break away Crimea.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

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