View Poll Results: You worried?

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Thread: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

  1. #81
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Aren't you all so funny with your little puns.

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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    If the thought of war between USA and Russia doesn't make you **** yourself, I don't know about sociopath.... but maybe your sense of realism is a bit out of whack.

    Russia isn't Iraq or even Vietnam. It isn't even Japan or Germany. It would by far be the most brutal and difficult war in the history of this nation.
    I do not see the US going to war over the Ukraine. Just not a materially important enough war for the US to enter into. Symbolically, yes, it would mean old Mother Russia is flexing her muscles. Combine this with Russia seeking, what is it, 7-8 countries around the globe to allow for docking and replenishment and what you have is Putin unmanning Obama once again.

    China has a strategic military alliance with Russia and that old dragon has been spreading her wings too. Iran, another one, continuing with a enrichment program outside the parameters of the agreed upon deal made with the US and another one showing the world that it too can thumb its nose at the once almighty super power.

    All 3 testing the waters and all three getting away with largely symbolic victories. Iran will get itself into trouble soon enough. China is too smart to go too far in their belligerence, knowing that its too early in the game to be going gangster on us. Russia has nothing to lose because it has everything to lose. It can and will take the Ukraine maybe not an out and out take over, but under some guise you can be sure. Claim it is defending the legitimate government of a staunch ally appease the usurps plebs by making the old boy step down and put in a new Putin puppet that he'll call power sharing for the time being and later use the old KGB playbook to discredit and make illegitimate all who oppose him..

    No one will do anything because no one will lose anything. Except for Ukrainians... and Russia should it not follow through...

  3. #83
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You've got to be joking. The world trades with post-Saddam Iraq.

    You know who we didn't trade with and couldn't give a crap about? Ukraine under a western-friendly government. It didn't happen then and it's not happening anytime soon.
    We didn't trade with Ukraine for the reasons outlined by Rainman earlier - you can't have forgotten the moves towards Ukraine joining the EU which were halted by Russia's bribes?

    The whole process may start again once peace is resolved. Ukraine may become part of the EU and become a democracy - neither Syria nor Iraq have that kind of future ahead of them.

  4. #84
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    We didn't trade with Ukraine for the reasons outlined by Rainman earlier - you can't have forgotten the moves towards Ukraine joining the EU which were halted by Russia's bribes?
    Ukraine had and has as much of a chance of getting into the EU as Turkey.


    The whole process may start again once peace is resolved. Ukraine may become part of the EU and become a democracy - neither Syria nor Iraq have that kind of future ahead of them.
    I'll believe it when I see it.

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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Ukraine had and has as much of a chance of getting into the EU as Turkey.
    Not true - the desire to have Turkey join the EU was mainly from the USA, UK and a few others - some major countries such as France were against Turkey joining.

    I don't recall any EU nations being against the Ukraine joining or starting the accession process. It was only Russia against them joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    -- I'll believe it when I see it.
    Right now, who knows what is going to happen but a large part of the non-Russian Ukrainian population is for joining the EU.

  6. #86
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Not true - the desire to have Turkey join the EU was mainly from the USA, UK and a few others - some major countries such as France were against Turkey joining.

    I don't recall any EU nations being against the Ukraine joining or starting the accession process. It was only Russia against them joining.
    Which tells you a lot about the motivations of the anti-Turkey lobby. They argued that they didn't want a poor country on the eastern fringe of Europe becoming a member, yet Ukraine's per capita GDP is just 40% that of Turkey's, and the likelihood of mass migration from the Ukraine would be about twice as great.
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    If the thought of war between USA and Russia doesn't make you **** yourself, I don't know about sociopath.... but maybe your sense of realism is a bit out of whack.

    Russia isn't Iraq or even Vietnam. It isn't even Japan or Germany. It would by far be the most brutal and difficult war in the history of this nation.
    I'm not playing down the gravity of the situation (as far as it goes), but don't expect any countdown to global annihilation. This isn't the Cuban missile crisis. The only time WW3 looks set to kick off is where superpowers face off directly. That won't happen over bum**** Ukraine. Nobody's 'ending the world' over this nappy BS. You need a little perspective. I'm guessing you probably succumbed to the hysteria over Iran and North Korea, too. Look what happened. Not one thing. We're all still breathing. Imagine that.

    Don't waste your time sweating bullets about silly Armageddon scenarios. Worry about the fiscal deficit. Education, health care, the environment and trade. Stuff like that. Leave the placard-carrying doomsayers to their own devices. They like that ****. You don't have to follow suit. It's one small step from unfounded, reactionary hysteria to believing Kris Kristofferson drinks blood and shape shifts into a 7' lizard. Tread lightly, dude.

  8. #88
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    If Russia can grab Ukraine, why not Kazakhstan? Why not Poland? Why not East Germany?

    This is why Obama is in a pickle. He can't show weakness, but, on the other hand, nobody wants a catastrophic war either. This war would make Iraq look like patty cake.
    Each one of those has a different geopolitical circumstance. You are essentially claiming a slippery slope, which in order to be valid, would require for there to be nothing to differentiate them. I can tell you, I would certainly never advocate allowing their grabbing of East Germany. Among other things, with them we actually do have a defense treaty, unlike Ukraine. (The agreement with Ukraine is not a defense treaty).

    It is my view that Russia should have never permitted the departure of Ukraine without a partition. It makes no sense whatsoever for majority people aligned with Russia to be in a country that would potentially look to the West. And Crimea should be part of Russia without question, except for one brief aberration of history.

    I believe Russia may seek partition. But for their agreement with us, the UK and Ukraine, military intervention to achieve it would even have some legitimacy, depending on the territories they seek.

    So, nope, don't see the slippery slope that you do.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  9. #89
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I do not see the US going to war over the Ukraine. Just not a materially important enough war for the US to enter into. Symbolically, yes, it would mean old Mother Russia is flexing her muscles. Combine this with Russia seeking, what is it, 7-8 countries around the globe to allow for docking and replenishment and what you have is Putin unmanning Obama once again.

    China has a strategic military alliance with Russia and that old dragon has been spreading her wings too. Iran, another one, continuing with a enrichment program outside the parameters of the agreed upon deal made with the US and another one showing the world that it too can thumb its nose at the once almighty super power.

    All 3 testing the waters and all three getting away with largely symbolic victories. Iran will get itself into trouble soon enough. China is too smart to go too far in their belligerence, knowing that its too early in the game to be going gangster on us. Russia has nothing to lose because it has everything to lose. It can and will take the Ukraine maybe not an out and out take over, but under some guise you can be sure. Claim it is defending the legitimate government of a staunch ally appease the usurps plebs by making the old boy step down and put in a new Putin puppet that he'll call power sharing for the time being and later use the old KGB playbook to discredit and make illegitimate all who oppose him..

    No one will do anything because no one will lose anything. Except for Ukrainians... and Russia should it not follow through...
    Strangely, Russia is giving Yanukovich the cold shoulder. I would have agreed with you about them defending "the legitimate government", but for that. It is interesting, their game.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  10. #90
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Russia has met his match in Ukraine. This is not Georgia. The freaking Russian bully cannot just occupy and treat lands that do not belong to them by force like it did in Georgia and none did much about it. This one has a fighting chance. This one can fight, is armed, and may only need some help while engaged.

    Russia better stay the F out of this one because if they lose a war here countries currently within Russia may follow. They are oppressed from the bully system just as well and may ask to be really free too!

    Now I know none wants neither to intervene nor to corner Russia out of fears of WW3. But Ukraine may no longer take being bullied from Russia neither! Perhaps intervention may come, but may do so when Ukraine and Russia start giving positive signals that they want us to intervene between them.
    Yeah.....


    The government of Ukraine is a nigh-on-collapsed, bankrupt entity probably unable to exercise control over all of it's territory without Russian intervention. I put the odds of them successfully repulsing or even managing a serious impediment to Russia's seizure of the Ukraine at..... low.
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