View Poll Results: You worried?

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  • Yes

    49 49.00%
  • No

    45 45.00%
  • I'm buying my marshmallows

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Thread: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

  1. #41
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    ...when I was in Ukraine 2 years ago, you had EU flags flying on the pillars alongside ukrainian flags. He switched 3-4 months ago after Putin made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
    Haha Godfather reference?

    Did he wake up with a horse's head in his bed?

  2. #42
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Why should the U.S. care, it's 15 000 miles away?

    WW3 will probably be a ME event.

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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Yes, but Russian wouldn't officially recognize west Ukraine and the West wouldn't officially recognize east Ukraine, and we'll have even more non-state states along the lines of Kosovo and South Ossetia. :P

    Even in that case, the region would probably remain a powder keg, because I cannot imagine Ukrainians on either side giving up their claim on the other.
    Why shouldn't the Russians, Ukrainians and EU stand to what they had done? I cannot imagine they hadn't foreseen this development. I mean, it's about what happened in Georgia. And it isn't half bad in this case. At least it seems better than the Syrian solution.

  4. #44
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    I don't get it, people. Assad slaughters 100k and gasses the capital, and people don't want to get involved. A mostly western nation intervenes with an instability issue on its border and NOW people want to do something? That doesn't make any sense. WTF kind of priorities are those?

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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Well, in Ukraine, there is an ethnic divide between west and east, unlike in Germany of Korea, but much like in Czechoslovakia.
    This is a general reply to all the comments you posted.

    I'm surprised you even contemplate this as a solution. i mean, I don't blame you... the thought of going up against Russia in any sort of conflict is very, very undesirable.

    In the 1700s if I recall correctly, the Russian Empire took Crimea and kicked the Ottomans' asses while doing so. Crimea was mostly a tartar land back then, the final refuge of a dying form of government, a remnant of the hordes that inhabited the southern part of Russia after the 1300s. And yes, it was populated mostly by Russians afterwards who moved there -> Crimea was a strategic asset to the Tsarists because it gave them access to the black sea... a way to build up their navy for further wars with the ottomans -> lots of jobs in the shipbuilding industry. So people who say that Crimea should belong to Russia are not without a claim on it all... but if that were the case, why now? Why 24 years after the USSR fell are Ukraine got it's independence are they pushing for this? They could have taken it any point until now?

    It's not because of "ethnicity" or nationalism or anything of the sorts, it's to salvage a strategic military area from what Russia perceives as a hostile territory... or rather, a territory that will uncontrollable if it falls under the EU influence, which it will. And I think it's rather ****ty of Putin to instigate ethnic tensions and promote cheap propaganda just to satisfy getting a military important area under his control. The ramifications to this kind of psychological, ethno-warfare are hard to quantify until after the dust settles.

    If Ukraine loses Crimea, or other regions in the East, you will effectively state that something called "ukrainian" is just a sub-slavic group... something that exists only in the absence of Russian because Russian is the real deal and Ukrainian is like, the leftovers. You invalidate all that ukrainian intellectuals or people of culture have tried to reinvigorate over the past decades. This is why I cannot support a decision of splitting up Ukraine because it's more than just a territorial thing, it's a cultural identity thing.

  6. #46
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I don't get it, people. Assad slaughters 100k and gasses the capital, and people don't want to get involved. A mostly western nation intervenes with an instability issue on its border and NOW people want to do something? That doesn't make any sense. WTF kind of priorities are those?
    It has nothing to do with the people of Syria or Ukraine, and everything to do with the longterm security of the people of Europe and thus the longterm well-being of the United States.

    We've held on to a balance since the end of WW2 with the Soviets/Russians, and the eastern bloc states have always been the battleground. The further West the Russian influence goes, the less secure Europe is in the long run.

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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Haha Godfather reference?

    Did he wake up with a horse's head in his bed?
    No, he took the carrot approach... 15bil of it. And under Yanukovych, 37bil of russian loans went "missing". So... it's a pretty big bribe.

  8. #48
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I don't get it, people. Assad slaughters 100k and gasses the capital, and people don't want to get involved. A mostly western nation intervenes with an instability issue on its border and NOW people want to do something? That doesn't make any sense. WTF kind of priorities are those?
    Have you really not figured out yet that the west doesn't give a **** about the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Yes, that could be a solution. The Ukrainians have to be in favor of it, though. The ousted president of Ukraine is sitting there in Russia saying how Ukraine must remain undivided, blah blah blah.

    Splitting the country is certainly an option though
    Indeed. On a side note, I die a little inside every time I see you wearing a Libertarian - Right lean.

  9. #49
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Haha Godfather reference?

    Did he wake up with a horse's head in his bed?
    You don't turn down a Putin offer lightly. And when he holds a billion dollars of your family treasure? Give the guy a break. He doesn't need a horse's head.

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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    ... it's to salvage a strategic military area from what Russia perceives as a hostile territory... or rather, a territory that will uncontrollable if it falls under the EU influence, which it will. And I think it's rather ****ty of Putin to instigate ethnic tensions and promote cheap propaganda just to satisfy getting a military important area under his control. The ramifications to this kind of psychological, ethno-warfare are hard to quantify until after the dust settles.
    .

    Both sides play that game.

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