View Poll Results: You worried?

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Thread: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

  1. #31
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I feel like there's an easy solution to all of this. Just split Ukraine into two countries. Hold votes, and any territory/state/province that wants to go with Russia can and the rest can go with the west.

    Splitting a country is always better than war. I don't think we should force anyone to live together that doesn't want to.
    Yes, I agree.

    Who knows, maybe Russia is satisfied (for now) with keeping Crimea and protecting its major naval base there. Hopefully, that's really all there is for the moment. We'll see.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  2. #32
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    That can be sad for the country that's split though, see East/West Germany for example. Or North/South Korea.

    Then again, it's happened successfully in the past, like Czechoslovakia.
    Well, in Ukraine, there is an ethnic divide between west and east, unlike in Germany of Korea, but much like in Czechoslovakia.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  3. #33
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    What's up German Guy, it's been a while.
    Hey, good to see you again! Had a few busy months, but now I'm back.

    I have no doubt that the United States will support Germany and every other NATO country, I just hope Obama and his team have the skill to diffuse the situation before it gets to that point without tilting the balance of power to the Russian side. I think it is possible, but, like I said earlier, this is the most important moment of Obama's presidency.
    I hope you're right.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  4. #34
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    And when this is all done, we need to deal with Cuba once and for all. I'm sick of those mother****ers inviting ships this close to our borders.

    Then again, that's probably exactly how Russia feels about Ukraine.

  5. #35
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    What's up German Guy, it's been a while.

    I hope the West don't simply give in, that would have pretty bad consequences in shifting the balance back toward Russia. We worked so hard (Europe and America that is) to achieve the balance the way it is today. And nobody has benefitted more from that work than the Germans - you have reunited East and West, you've formed a European Union, your economy has blossomed and your country has really entered a new era.

    It was only 25 years ago, though, that the Soviets had East Germany under their sphere of influence. 25 years is not that long, and many of those Russians are still alive. You have to assume that there are people in Russia who look west with one eye, hoping for a chance to regain what they used to have.

    If we give in and let Russia just take Ukraine or do what they want, then that cloud of Russian influence drifts closer and closer to Germany's back door. If Russia wins in Ukraine, they will only get bolder.

    I have no doubt that the United States will support Germany and every other NATO country, I just hope Obama and his team have the skill to diffuse the situation before it gets to that point without tilting the balance of power to the Russian side. I think it is possible, but, like I said earlier, this is the most important moment of Obama's presidency.
    It looks like we may see the EU under the lead of Germany split the county into East- and West Ukraine with the Russians taking Crimea.

  6. #36
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    That can be sad for the country that's split though, see East/West Germany for example. Or North/South Korea.

    Then again, it's happened successfully in the past, like Czechoslovakia.
    Well it's hardly that pivotal of a decision. The pro-Russian side would simply form its own country and be part of the Russian economic block, and the pro-EU side would simply form its own country and be part of the EU economic block. It's nowhere near as severe as those two examples were.

  7. #37
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Well it's hardly that pivotal of a decision. The pro-Russian side would simply form its own country and be part of the Russian economic block, and the pro-EU side would simply form its own country and be part of the EU economic block. It's nowhere near as severe as those two examples were.
    Yes, but Russian wouldn't officially recognize west Ukraine and the West wouldn't officially recognize east Ukraine, and we'll have even more non-state states along the lines of Kosovo and South Ossetia. :P

    Even in that case, the region would probably remain a powder keg, because I cannot imagine Ukrainians on either side giving up their claim on the other.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  8. #38
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Well it's hardly that pivotal of a decision. The pro-Russian side would simply form its own country and be part of the Russian economic block, and the pro-EU side would simply form its own country and be part of the EU economic block. It's nowhere near as severe as those two examples were.
    Yes, that could be a solution. The Ukrainians have to be in favor of it, though. The ousted president of Ukraine is sitting there in Russia saying how Ukraine must remain undivided, blah blah blah.

    Splitting the country is certainly an option though

  9. #39
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Well, in Ukraine, there is an ethnic divide between west and east, unlike in Germany of Korea, but much like in Czechoslovakia.
    It always looks different, when one has to make one's own decision. There is always a rationalization. That is an experience the Germans are beginning to make.

  10. #40
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I feel like there's an easy solution to all of this. Just split Ukraine into two countries. Hold votes, and any territory/state/province that wants to go with Russia can and the rest can go with the west.

    Splitting a country is always better than war. I don't think we should force anyone to live together that doesn't want to.
    That's easier said than done.

    Ukrainians are trying to regain and rebuild their identity that has been suppressed and destroyed during both the imperial periods of the Tsarist regime and especially more so under communism.
    It's why you have these issues right now. Russians know who they are, more or less... certainly more so than any notion of what "ukrainian" is. That's why you have sayings from the russian community that "ukrainians are just russians in denial", or "ukrainians are just russians with a different accent" or things along that line. The notion of "ukrainian" has been so dismissed and repressed over the centuries that a lot of people don't care or know what that even is. And it's not like there isn't one. Ukrainians have had cultural icons over the centuries. They had poets, composers, writers that were performing their arts as ukrainians, not as russians.

    So... ukraine is now a country and there are ethnic russians in it. There is no reason why they can't live together. The only reason why they can't, now, is that it's a very troublesome period that was sparked by president Yanukovych whom, he himself, 6 months ago was on a pro-EU stance... he wanted the FTA agreement, he wanted closer ties to the EU... heck, when I was in Ukraine 2 years ago, you had EU flags flying on the pillars alongside ukrainian flags. He switched 3-4 months ago after Putin made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

    So... it's not about ethnicity or nationalism. It's about chaos and when there's chaos, when there's no direction, everything goes and the propaganda machine is spinning... and spinning... and people hold on to what they can. And for the russian speaking community in Ukraine, it's being Russian. Not for all... but certainly for a lot of those in Crimea.

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