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Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

You worried?

  • Yes

    Votes: 40 49.4%
  • No

    Votes: 36 44.4%
  • I'm buying my marshmallows

    Votes: 5 6.2%

  • Total voters
    81
You don't turn down a Putin offer lightly. And when he holds a billion dollars of your family treasure? Give the guy a break. He doesn't need a horse's head.

I could see Putin as the Russian Godfather.
 
I don't get it, people. Assad slaughters 100k and gasses the capital, and people don't want to get involved. A mostly western nation intervenes with an instability issue on its border and NOW people want to do something? That doesn't make any sense. WTF kind of priorities are those?

There is no "good" faction to support in Syria.
the rebels are islamists who want sharia and kill alawites and christians.
The FSA is inexistent and has been for a long time now.
The kurds are separatists who want to take NE Syria.
And Assad is a dictator who lost all legitimacy. You tell me now, eco, who will you have supported? None. The only course of intervention in Syria is to destroy all those 4 groups and give the people democracy. And that means long time occupation, another Iraq basically.

In Ukraine, that's not the case now. There is a right course of action and there are correct choices -> the pro-EU protesters and the people they trust are the ones we need to be supporting. There is a chance for an easier happy ending, and a quicker happy ending to this. There is no easy way with Syria.

Have you really not figured out yet that the west doesn't give a **** about the middle east?


I don't think it's that... my thoughts are above.
 
I meant... Russia is nowhere near despotic enough for the US to go intervening in a country on its border.

I'm not siding with Russia, I'm accepting priorities based on global context. It would be monumentally stupid for the US to go pissing off a mostly western (and powerful) nation regarding instability on its border.

Do I want to intervene in Syria? Yes. Do I want to nation build Iran? Yes. Do I want to interfere with Russia regarding instability on its border? No, I'm not stupid.

I understand hesitancy but Russia has always and always been a despotic bully.
 
There is no "good" faction to support in Syria.

Sure there is, and it was the majority until we allowed terrorists to fill the void created by our lack of helping them.
 
Have you really not figured out yet that the west doesn't give a **** about the middle east?

All evidence is to the contrary, even if we did allow the democratic movement in Syria to die.
 
It's no Assad.

That is how I understand the hesitancy.

But on another issue since you brought up "Assad." What if this is a pre-trade agreement? Russia has Crimea but with the condition of getting off Syria?
 
Sure there is, and it was the majority until we allowed terrorists to fill the void created by our lack of helping them.

Every country should deal with its internal affairs. That's the point of sovereignty, isn't it, eco?
 
Sure there is, and it was the majority until we allowed terrorists to fill the void created by our lack of helping them.

The terrorists were there from the beginning. What happened is that very soon... and quite in an insidious fashion, the overtook the FSA and there is no recovery from that.

Let me put it in a way you understand. By the time McCain said those words " give the right guns to the right people without puting boots on the ground" or something along those lines, there were no more "right people".
 

Russia has just 2 approaches. The carrot and the carrot and the stick approach.

The carrot approach is the one described above... it's why so many politicians (even that are now in the opposition) are rich as all hell. To put that in perspective, Ukraine only has 170bil $ gdp. 37bil $ worth of loans went "missing"... that's nearly 20% of the GDP.

The other approach is the carrot and the stick approach by which Russia takes a carrot, sticks it up the ass of <name of country/person/etc>, then takes the stick and shoves it in deeper then takes that carrot and sticks that up the ass too and shoves it in deeper with the stick, and leaves the stick in there too. It's quite a lot of homosexual imagery... for a very anti-homo country.
 
Dig a little deeper, Watson. We care about their oil, not the people.

Yeah, gotta dig real deep for that tired old BS.

How much oil did we get from Iraq? None. Contracts? None.
 
That is how I understand the hesitancy.

But on another issue since you brought up "Assad." What if this is a pre-trade agreement? Russia has Crimea but with the condition of getting off Syria?

The issues cannot be conflated. Russia's border, and its status as a mostly western nation, put this conflict beyond US priorities.
 
The terrorists were there from the beginning.

Obviously. And they were a minority among the rebels until they became the only source of security for the rebels because the West turned away.
 
Not terribly worried, likely the new direction taken by our military and government will avoid U.S. interference beyond financial support and diplomatic rhetoric. It seems we may have finally learned the lessons of our recent past....don't send in the SWAT team for a domestic dispute.
 
Every country should deal with its internal affairs. That's the point of sovereignty, isn't it, eco?

When people are being crushed beneath the iron boot of brutal murderous oppression, that regime loses its right to sovereignty. You are confusing a people and a dictator. US intervention returns sovereignty to the people, who are its rightful owners.
 
The issues cannot be conflated. Russia's border, and its status as a mostly western nation, put this conflict beyond US priorities.

Remains to be seen if Russian troops move from Syria and leave Assad to the allies unguarded. If Russians take Crimea than you can be certain that an agreement took place.
 
Russia has just 2 approaches. The carrot and the carrot and the stick approach.

The carrot approach is the one described above... it's why so many politicians (even that are now in the opposition) are rich as all hell. To put that in perspective, Ukraine only has 170bil $ gdp. 37bil $ worth of loans went "missing"... that's nearly 20% of the GDP.

The other approach is the carrot and the stick approach by which Russia takes a carrot, sticks it up the ass of <name of country/person/etc>, then takes the stick and shoves it in deeper then takes that carrot and sticks that up the ass too and shoves it in deeper with the stick, and leaves the stick in there too. It's quite a lot of homosexual imagery... for a very anti-homo country.

LOL!

You got your point across. :p
 
Remains to be seen if Russian troops move from Syria and leave Assad to the allies unguarded. If Russians take Crimea than you can be certain that an agreement took place.

Russia can take Crimea and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. They've no need for an agreement.

The world is not going to 'coalition of the willing' against a mostly western nation dealing with its own border.
 
Russia can take Crimea and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. They've no need for an agreement.

The world is not going to 'coalition of the willing' against a mostly western nation dealing with its own border.

Passive position but okay.
 
The Ukraine situation is no giant, earth-shattering deal. It's significant, but nothing like on the drama some seem to be suggesting here, IMO.

Russia is not going to invade the Ukraine. At most, IMO, they might supply military support to the Crimea becoming a Russian-leaning independent. They might even support the Western Ukraine becoming a separate nation.
And remember, the Crimea is different then the rest of the Ukraine. It is considered by many to be an autonomous region...separate from any other. Khrushchev basically admitted as much when he 'gave' the region to the Ukraine in the 50's. Plus, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is based there - so of course Russian troops will be in the Crimea. The Crimea is not really a direct part of the Ukraine...it is a grey area.

But there is NO WAY they will just flat out invade the entire Ukraine.

This is not the Cold War. Russia completely depends on the sale of their natural resources...much of it to the West. If they start invading independent countries that reject their presence, they can kiss those resource profits good bye.
China might even think twice about dealing with Russia under those circumstances.

Back in the Cold War, the U.S.S.R. made virtually nothing from selling commodities to the West...they had a (theoretically) internal economy...not any longer.
Putin is no idiot. Sure, he does not want the Ukraine to go EU. But he wants to survive politically FAR more. And he won't survive long if his actions cut off natural resource profits and plunge the nation into a huge recession.

Russia might help the Crimea become 'independent'. And they would obviously offer moral support to the Western Ukraine if it separates.
But there is, IMO, ZERO chance of Russia invading the entire Ukraine...let alone the Western portion were it to separate (unless the 'provisional government' in the east asked them to do so).

Russia's economy depends on exports of it's raw materials...it cannot risk a massive recession by alienating it's customers.


And finally, the LAST thing the West should do is directly militarily challenge the Russians over this UNLESS the latter actually start an invasion of the non-Crimean Ukraine...which they won't.

The west should warn Russia to stay out of the non-Crimean Ukraine...but considering the Russians already have a huge naval base in the Crimea and the west said nothing about it before. They cannot suddenly turn around and demand the Russians leave their long-used military port now.

I think the West is handling this pretty well so far...wait and see, but make sure Russia knows that Russian troops in Kiev will not be tolerated or be in anyone's best interests.


Personally, I think the Crimea might leave to become 'independent'...with Russian help. And maybe the western Ukraine will break away to the EU...maybe.

But that's it.

No new Cold War...no chance if that, IMO.
 
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Passive position but okay.

You're not gonna find anyone on this board more interventionist than I. And I say it cannot be done.

1. Russia is mostly western.
2. Russia is powerful.
3. It's their border.

End of story.
 
Russia can take Crimea and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. They've no need for an agreement.

The world is not going to 'coalition of the willing' against a mostly western nation dealing with its own border.

You know what they'll say?

"Crimea river."

Bahahaha :lamo
 
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