View Poll Results: You worried?

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  • Yes

    49 49.00%
  • No

    45 45.00%
  • I'm buying my marshmallows

    6 6.00%
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Thread: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

  1. #251
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Post 189:

    So yeah, in fact, I did.
    No, in fact, you didn't. You're now trying to cover up your mistake by faking the evidence and not using the same quote you used earlier. In the earlier quote you included my House of Lords link as well as that one sentence.

    Yes, you included a book review and I quoted that book review. You didn't.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Te difference of course, being that we do not have a legally binding treaty obligating us to do so.
    We have no treaty in reference to cyber terrorism or cyber attacks? I'm pretty sure both are against international law, which we theoretically uphold.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...yes, it does. I don't know how to make that more blatant than block-quoting it for you, unless you want me to break up my discussion in chunks and block-quote the book below each claim?

    Of course they did. The hackers were an instrument of foreign policy.
    I don't agree with your rules of rumor and innuendo and that's all you have.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Did you read that part about necessary ambiguity when discussing Intelligence Community Assessments?
    That's as good an excuse as any for not producing evidence when you want to make some money, as Mr Buy-My-Book is trying to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Richard Clarke spent years trying to convince Administrations of both parties that Al Qaeda was coming, and found himself beating up against a similar wall with the Bush Administration on Cyber. It's not a surprise to me he went public - in his shoes, I would be tempted to do so as well.

    But you deny that he even said what I am pointing out to you that he did.
    I used your exact quotes as I made comments on them. There was NOTHING THERE showing the Russia government was responsible for the Estonia attack.

    The only thing I left off and didn't comment on was the - also unsupported - suppositions about the Russia mafia and the Russian government. One could accuse us of collusion with our underworld, too, since our government does on occasion hire former criminals as consultants.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You deny that states use cyber attacks and then go to great length to defend a position that would make it almost irresistibly tempting for them to do so.
    I "denied" your assertion that the Russians attacked Estonia because there was no proof of that happening and in all these posts you have failed to produce any.


    I didn't deny that some countries carry on cyber warfare. I said if they did it it was on a small scale (with the exceptions also noted in that same post). If you believe otherwise then produce the evidence of these other not-so-small-scale attacks.
    The fact is, we have more proof of Anonymous carrying out attacks against our government than we do another country attacking us.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You skip over or dismiss the testimony of those who know the subject far better than you, and to what purpose? Because you don't want to admit that NATO is basically useless for much of 21st Century Warfare?
    I dismissed "testimony" - point by point - of supposition and rumor, which is all you supplied.


    I asked for proof of your claim that,

    "Russia's response was to launch a cyber attack that basically shut down the country",

    which referred to the Estonia incident in 2007. All these posts later you still have provided no proof of that claim. You've supplied a whole slew or rumor, suspicion, and innuendo but absolutely no proof at all. Now you're starting to accuse me of things I've never said.
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  2. #252
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    You may find this interesting.

    How Should The West Respond? « The Dish

    The argument that Russia is showing its weakness is based upon the fact that they cant influence a nation on its own border with strong ethnic ties by anything but a show of force. Thats weakness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    invasion is a tool of the desperate, used only when other cost effective methods are no longer available.
    Not necessarily.

    To a bully country this is the way one shows influence. It has always been. To a bully country not showing force and the army is considered weakness.

    There may be cultural specific perspectives here that may provide vacuum between us and them that Putin may use to his advantage. I mean he grabs Crimea and we cannot really say "we are winning for he is weak" here, can we?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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  3. #253
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Not necessarily.

    To a bully country this is the way one shows influence. It has always been. To a bully country not showing force and the army is considered weakness.

    There may be cultural specific perspectives here that may provide vacuum between us and them that Putin may use to his advantage. I mean he grabs Crimea and we cannot really say "we are winning for he is weak" here, can we?
    But can Russia maintain control in the Ukraine and crimea
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  4. #254
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    But can Russia maintain control in the Ukraine and crimea
    The more Ukraine is isolated and exposed to Russian terror and iron grip, corrupt, mafia, regime, the more Russian can control Ukrainian Crimea. The more Ukraine can fight (and I hear they are full of weapons) and receives some help the less the above can happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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  5. #255
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    The more Ukraine is isolated and exposed to Russian terror and iron grip, corrupt, mafia, regime, the more Russian can control Ukrainian Crimea. The more Ukraine can fight (and I hear they are full of weapons) and receives some help the less the above can happen.
    I don't think Russia can maintain control of the Crimea and Ukraine if the situation devolves into another Chechnya.
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  6. #256
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    So we're not all dead yet, then? No?

    Good.

  7. #257
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Worried? No...I am (selfishly) loving it.

    All this concern is sending my precious metals and other commodities up.


    Besides, I think the whole thing is over-rated.

    Sure, the Russian-dominated Crimea is being occupied by Russia...but the rest of the Ukraine should (imo) stay Russian army-free so long as the eastern Ukraine does not try to separate from the Western Ukraine. imo.


    And even if it does...my precious metals will probably go way up.
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Worried? No...I am (selfishly) loving it.

    All this concern is sending my precious metals and other commodities up.


    Besides, I think the whole thing is over-rated.

    Sure, the Russian-dominated Crimea is being occupied by Russia...but the rest of the Ukraine should (imo) stay Russian army-free so long as the eastern Ukraine does not try to separate from the Western Ukraine. imo.


    And even if it does...my precious metals will probably go way up.
    Ah, the Gordon Gekko school of morality.

  9. #259
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Worried? No...I am (selfishly) loving it.

    All this concern is sending my precious metals and other commodities up.


    Besides, I think the whole thing is over-rated.

    Sure, the Russian-dominated Crimea is being occupied by Russia...but the rest of the Ukraine should (imo) stay Russian army-free so long as the eastern Ukraine does not try to separate from the Western Ukraine. imo.


    And even if it does...my precious metals will probably go way up.
    Because precious metals are key to this region.

    Here's a clue....if people are dumb enough to drive the price up because of this, it's your signal to sell.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  10. #260
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Everyone else is being paid to post? What kind of freelance BS advertising is this?

    I got ones dish right here.

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