I'm buying my marshmallows
I actually agree with this guy. Russia's going to swallow up bits of Ukraine, like it swallowed up bits of Georgia -- it's just what Russia does. Did anyone really think Russia would just fade into history after 1991? They've had bigger shocks than that, and recovered from it -- World War I and 1812 come to mind. Russia is doing exactly what everyone expected it to do after a couple decades of sorting itself out.
Now, you can start worrying about Armageddon when China invades Japan, or Russia invades the EU.
That will be bad.
It may not. Only time will tell. But consider that there's one important variable here: The will of the people. Note that Eastern Ukraineans typically favor pro-Russia relations. So it's not as if they would be conquered against their consent, or something to that effect. And this goes double for the particularly strong pro-Russia sentiment in Crimea. Yeah that may sound harsh, but hey--I'm not a Ukrainean.
Putin is not the only guy on this planet who sees military force as an answer, he's also not the first to use it.
Take a look at the USA's history of using its military to solve 'problems' all over this planet.
BTW: There are a lot more Russian-speaking people in Crimea than there are Ukrainian speakers. that is a fact.
In that light, Putin's actions are not totally unreasonable.
But I definitely don't approve of his actions.
Last edited by shrubnose; 03-02-14 at 04:09 PM.
Another thing. As Americans, we need to be very careful as to what kind of measures we advocate. No, I don't want to see Russia take over all of Eastern Europe again. But our own recent past is littered with failed invasions and regime changes. We don't exactly have a good moral standing on this issue.
As to the pro-Russian sentiment in the Crimea I believe there is quite strong opposition to it and until the "non identified military personnel" showed up the pro Russians were the smaller group.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
There are far more Spanish speakers along the border of the US and Mexico. Is that justification for Mexico to annex parts of the US? Clearly this is not a justification for any kind of military annexation. It is a justification based on emotion and nationalism instead of international law.
Crimea is the peninsula that looks like an island to the southeast.
Thankfully it appears that the pro-West/pro-Russia divide is a pretty clean one, unlike the complete cluster**** in Syria.
Richard Clarke was the guy who spent years trying to convince both the Clinton and Bush Administrations that this oddball group called "Al-Qaeda" was going to try to launch attacks inside of the Continental United States. He was the Cyber Czar for the Bush Administration. I realize that mockery is the last resort of those who have no argument, but it falls flat here.because he has no proof, nor does anyone else. And Mr Buy-My-Book wasn't employed by the government after 2003. However, sensationalism has a solid history of selling newspapers and books. You go, dude! Make that money!! Cha-ching!!!
The UN? I could give a fig about the UN, that worthless, useless body in which Russia enjoys a veto anyway. What we should have done is what we pledged to do for NATO countries - offer them our tools to defend themselves if they come under attack.We'd be laughed out of the UN and off the world stage by even mentioning this incident in more than passing. Thanks God even Bush wasn't stupid enough to try anything on that kind of fuel.
No, the same tactics as in utilizing DDOS attacks to neutralize financial servers while impersonating those servers and sending thousands of fraudulent claims to Central and Western European Financial Centers, triggering automatic lockdowns ensuring that, even as the host nation loses the ability to serve it's deposit holders, it also loses the ability to borrow from outside sources in order to replace its temporarily frozen capital."The same tactics" as in a cyber attack? LOL!
Russia is a police state that exercises control over its' hacking community, and is extremely skilled at cyber operations. The likelihood that this was random "patriotic Russians" (which is what - laughably - Putin's spokesman tried to insist that it must be) pulled this off without state support, awareness, and approval is about as likely as someone in the United States compiling a division of tanks and using them to invade Mexico without the government's knowledge. It is a ridiculous claim on it's face.You don't even have proof it was the same program that was used in the attack, let alone evidence the Russian government was responsible in any way for Estonia.
[quote]Yeah, coincidence and suspicion is a damn good reason to go to war or invoke trade sanctions - but after what Bush pulled in Iraq II I guess I can believe anything from the Conservative camp.
[quote]Should we have invoked trade sanctions with the UK after Anonymous hit us?
....you really have no idea how difficult and costly it is to develop, build, employ, and then attempt to reattribute complex cyber weapons, do you?One F-35: $100,000,000
Top notch laptop: $3000
Top notch desktop: $1500
Anyone can get their hands on a computer and start hacking almost anything in the world at this point
...You really do think it's like in the movies, where the cool music plays, and the guy looks at 5 different screens at one time, and some one's and zero's flash by in a montage, or you see a little "loading" bar, and then he's hacked the CIA or something.
No, dude. Cyber introduces asymmetries, to be sure, but nothing as extreme as the alternative you are positing - else our systems would be constantly going down from attacks by Al Qaeda or some similarly disapproving group, and Anonymous would be extremely successful instead of a nuisance. You still require pretty hefty resources to have these kinds of effects. There is a reason why Live Free or Die Hard is a hollywood movie rather than our reality - it's not like there aren't plenty of actors out there who would do it, if all it took was a $1500 laptop.
If Cyber isn't a war, then what's your worry? We aren't "going to war".If we're going to go to war I'd just as soon have real proof that an act of war has been committed instead of just a hunch or coincidence. We've already managed to start a war for no good reason this century. I'd hate to see us do it again.
On the contrary - we know that it was Russia that did this, and Russia did everything but admit it - jokingly claiming that maybe it was just patriots and refusing to allow any investigation into the points of origin. An attack was launched on a NATO ally and we did... nothing. I imagine it was fairly instructive for Putin.You have no proof at all that Russia did anything except tell Estonia to take a hike when Estonia asked for their help in the incident.
Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.