View Poll Results: You worried?

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  • Yes

    49 49.00%
  • No

    45 45.00%
  • I'm buying my marshmallows

    6 6.00%
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Thread: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

  1. #161
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    They are a deeply divided country incapable of effectively projecting power even within their own borders, dependent upon outside aid that may or may not be coming to prop up a bankrupt government?
    I disagree. I think that they too just like any other country can take care of themselves if not bullied from Russia and Russian promoted bully culture and corruption.
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    It is not our business

    Why we should care for a business far away from our border? The situation in Ukraine is extremely dangerously; i like neither Putin nor new Ukrainian 'government' - fascist 'rebels'. Stay away from war, enough is enough.
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    .


    Glen Beck, I command thee, out of SBu's head! Away, demon! And don't think you can run over to MadLib's head, I'll just cast you out of there as well.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 03-02-14 at 01:02 PM.

  4. #164
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Yes, it worries me. I'm no WW2 History buff, but anyone who looks at this situation can be reminded of the Hitler's cat joke, "I can has Poland?"

    Russia has occupied Crimea. It has ousted the local parliament and installed their own people. Russia has taken Crimea back, and I'm pretty damned sure it intends to keep it. It has violated the Ukrainian autonomy treaty signed between Russia, USA, UK, and Ukraine. It is massing troops on Ukraine's eastern border, next to other Ukrainian provinces that are primarily occupied by ethnic Russian-speakers.

    At this point, two things are absolute: Russia has taken back Crimea, and Putin has publicly declared that he wishes to reestablish the Soviet empire.

    I believe Russia will militarily occupy the Russia-friendly provinces of eastern Ukraine. There isn't a damned thing, short of WW3, anyone can do about it, and Putin knows that. The big question is, will Russia then move into EU-friendly western Ukraine, occupy that by force, reinstate the ousted Russian puppet President who the people just chased out of office, and claim Ukraine as part of Soviet Russia. If Putin does this, and the rest of the world just wrings its hands, then Ukraine will be merely the first of many previous Russian satellite countries who will, over the next few years, be re-included in the reestablishment of Putin's new USSR.

    How can he be stopped short of military confrontation? Short answer: He can't. He is in control, and he knows it. The EU won't do anything. NATO won't do anything. The USA and the UK are not really in a military or economic position to go it alone. And bottom line, even if they tried, the result would probably be a lot of cities reduced to green glass, because nuclear exchange is a real potential.

    Anyone who saw how Putin ignored Russian's constitution to keep himself in power permanently knows or should have known that he had a long-term agenda he intended to pursue. Ukraine is the first piece of this agenda, in my opinion. If he takes the entire country, it will not be the last.


    Edit: BTW, I haven't read the thread, so if I've reiterated points that have already been made, my apologies.
    That sounds about right.

    But I dont think Russia will try to take the Eastern part of the Ukraine.

    Look at this from Russia's side.

    I think it wants to keep Crimea. Its a critical part of its defense system - its only Black Sea naval port - and its only access to the Mediterranian. It knows if Ukraine goes pro-EU, they kick Russia out of the Crimea eventually, and they simply cant afford for that to happen.

    Reports are that they have functionally taken over the Crimea, and since it is a narrow peninsula, are reinforcing defenses between it and the rest of the Ukraine.

    Best guess is that they intend to encourage the overwhelmingly pro-Russian population of Crimea to declare independence and ally to Russia. I dont think Russia will want to annex Crimea itself - its tough to have a part of your nation disconnected from the mainland (It works for Alaska, I know, but... Canada) and Russias interests are totally served by a puppet state allowing their naval base to exist.
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  5. #165
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I don't know why we're not talking more about the situation in Ukraine on this site.

    A few days ago, I responded to one of the threads by wondering aloud whether Putin was going to put up with the West encroaching on a former Soviet satellite. I compared the situation to Georgia a few years ago, when the Russians went in. In fact, that was at an Olympics as well if I recall.

    It turns out I was right, and I'm not happy to say that.

    Anyway, I have learned to generally ignore the news, but after hearing the Russian military is now in Crimea I have sat up and taken notice.

    If you watch Obama's press conference addressing the issue, he looks visibly shaken and maybe even scared. And he probably should be, this is the biggest moment in his presidency.

    This is much more important than Obamacare, more important than Benghazi, any of that trivial stuff.

    I'm going to put it bluntly. I'd say there's about a 15% chance that this situation causes World War 3.
    It's literally that serious.

    What you have to do is look at it from Russia's perspective. If Ukraine goes westward, joins the EU, joins NATO.... all things the Russians fear.... then it's essentially Russia admitting defeat. It's Russia's sphere of influence shrinking for all the world to see.

    That may not be a forgivable offense in the eyes of the Russian people. That might mean Putin's head on the chopping block, and you can bet your ass he sees it that way too.

    Not only are the soldiers in Ukraine, a Russian spy ship just docked in Cuba 100 miles from Miami. The ship poses no harm, but it sends a message and I think that message is loud and clear and you don't need me to spell it out for you.

    The fact that Russian soldiers are somewhat covertly in the Russian section of Crimea should tell you one thing: it's not a full-blown attack, the Russians are dipping their toes in the water to feel it out.

    They're waiting. Waiting to see what Obama and the West do in response. Testing us.

    Show weakness and the Russians will simply take Ukraine. That will have catastrophic consequences. We would never be able to turn a satellite country our way again, because they would know they aren't protected. It's no coincidence that the Ukrainians are asking the UK and the US for protection... and we must give it to them.

    To fail to do so would strengthen Moscow and weaken Washington in a way we haven't seen since the 70's. The world does not need that. On the other hand, we must at all costs avoid backing Russia in to a corner they can't get out of, because if Putin must fight a war to maintain the status quo in terms of balance of power then I'm not so sure we can discount that possibility. We all know how catastrophic that could be for both sides.

    So this should concern you. You should pay attention to this situation as it unfolds. It may all fizzle out and amount to nothing, let's hope it does, but it has the potential to change the world in ways we can't begin to comprehend.



    I disagree.

    Not only will this not result in WWIII, It is very unlikely that any other countries will get directly involved in this dust-up

  6. #166
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    BBC News - Ukraine crisis in maps

    The more I study this situation, the more I believe that the optimal solution would be to peacefully split Ukraine into two separate countries.

    The people of Eastern Ukraine, especially Crimeans, prefer close ties with Russia. Russia wants to keep Ukraine, particularly Crimea, as an ally.
    The people of Western Ukraine prefer close ties with the EU. The EU would likely welcome Ukraine as a new partner.

    Also, I feel that Russia would get the better end of this deal, because most of the strategic ports and economic reserves--which is what they really want--lie in Eastern Ukraine.

  7. #167
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I don't know why we're not talking more about the situation in Ukraine on this site.

    A few days ago, I responded to one of the threads by wondering aloud whether Putin was going to put up with the West encroaching on a former Soviet satellite. I compared the situation to Georgia a few years ago, when the Russians went in. In fact, that was at an Olympics as well if I recall.

    It turns out I was right, and I'm not happy to say that.

    Anyway, I have learned to generally ignore the news, but after hearing the Russian military is now in Crimea I have sat up and taken notice.

    If you watch Obama's press conference addressing the issue, he looks visibly shaken and maybe even scared. And he probably should be, this is the biggest moment in his presidency.

    This is much more important than Obamacare, more important than Benghazi, any of that trivial stuff.

    I'm going to put it bluntly. I'd say there's about a 15% chance that this situation causes World War 3. It's literally that serious.

    What you have to do is look at it from Russia's perspective. If Ukraine goes westward, joins the EU, joins NATO.... all things the Russians fear.... then it's essentially Russia admitting defeat. It's Russia's sphere of influence shrinking for all the world to see.

    That may not be a forgivable offense in the eyes of the Russian people. That might mean Putin's head on the chopping block, and you can bet your ass he sees it that way too.

    Not only are the soldiers in Ukraine, a Russian spy ship just docked in Cuba 100 miles from Miami. The ship poses no harm, but it sends a message and I think that message is loud and clear and you don't need me to spell it out for you.

    The fact that Russian soldiers are somewhat covertly in the Russian section of Crimea should tell you one thing: it's not a full-blown attack, the Russians are dipping their toes in the water to feel it out.

    They're waiting. Waiting to see what Obama and the West do in response. Testing us.

    Show weakness and the Russians will simply take Ukraine. That will have catastrophic consequences. We would never be able to turn a satellite country our way again, because they would know they aren't protected. It's no coincidence that the Ukrainians are asking the UK and the US for protection... and we must give it to them.

    To fail to do so would strengthen Moscow and weaken Washington in a way we haven't seen since the 70's. The world does not need that. On the other hand, we must at all costs avoid backing Russia in to a corner they can't get out of, because if Putin must fight a war to maintain the status quo in terms of balance of power then I'm not so sure we can discount that possibility. We all know how catastrophic that could be for both sides.

    So this should concern you. You should pay attention to this situation as it unfolds. It may all fizzle out and amount to nothing, let's hope it does, but it has the potential to change the world in ways we can't begin to comprehend.
    I think your concerns are valid. I share these concerns, as well.
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  8. #168
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    I agree but Ukraine can fight too. They are also well armed.
    There is no reason to believe this will lead to war. Putin's bluff will be called and he will back down. He can't on one hand be part of the world of nations and still get away with his KGB thuggery. He will be isolated and alone if he continues this. Once that becomes clear he will cower like the coward he is.

  9. #169
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    There is the threat of a rebuilding "Soviet Union" which should be intolerable to any free person.

    Also, with all the unrest there, while it makes more women available, it makes it kind of hard to get there to meet them.
    Be sure to work hard and get lots of overtime. People on welfare want more steaks and free upgrades to smart phones with unlimited data packages.

  10. #170
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    In the period of globalization, anything that negatively impacts regional stability worries me.

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