View Poll Results: You worried?

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  • Yes

    49 49.00%
  • No

    45 45.00%
  • I'm buying my marshmallows

    6 6.00%
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Thread: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

  1. #151
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Okay that you think that Russia's seizure of Ukraine is low. But why do you think Ukraine cannot look after themselves if left alone again?
    They are a deeply divided country incapable of effectively projecting power even within their own borders, dependent upon outside aid that may or may not be coming to prop up a bankrupt government?
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  2. #152
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Few governments initiate cyber attacks. It's bad news if they get caught at it. In fact, AFAIK we're the only government that's been caught doing it - with the exception of Russia and Georgia exchanging cyber blows during their "little war".
    One of the beauties of Cyber Attacks is the relative ease with which you can make them either non-attributable, or impossible to prove attribution (the Russians are particularly good at that trick). Which is one reason why governments do, in fact, initiate Cyber Attacks. For other exceptions where this has gone public check out China (who seems to be quite busy in this realm) and Israel. Iran joins the club as a proud member, having outed herself (as did we). Even Hermit Kingdom North Korea has gotten into the game, although it seems they got at least an initial boost there from China.

    So, either we're really, really stupid (which I have a hard time believing because we have the best hackers money can buy) or the others aren't doing it, or are doing it on a very, very small scale.
    that. Or cyber defenses, capabilities, and weapons have extremely limited shelf-lives after they become public, and so are among the most tightly guarded secrets of any nation, and what has leaked is enough to make it clear that this is now a global cyber field of conflict, while what hasn't leaked is enough to make what has leaked look like the snowball on top of the tip of the iceberg.

    Or, you know. Nations could be sitting on top of a perfect way to strike at opposing entities while risking very little in return and refusing to do so out of a sense of decency about the whole thing. That, too, I suppose, is a possibility .
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  3. #153
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Hey, if we can do it and not get caught I'd be all for it. But we tried that once, already, and we did get caught. Good thing it was just Iran and not someone with a real army and nukes.
    :raises eyebrow: we outed ourselves. The Administration wanted to have some good "Foreign Policy" chest-thumping before the election and so they leaked it to the New York Times, and outed our Israeli allies as well (who must have collectively hit the ceiling, thereby further eroding trust with a key ally in the region).
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  4. #154
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    I believe I heard on the news that recent hacker attacks against retailers originated from Russia. Any thoughts on whether that was gov't sponsored or simply Russian gangs (of which there are a lot)
    What..... exactly.... makes you assume that those two things are mutually contradicting?
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  5. #155
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Next "point":



    That's a pretty big club including basically every leader.


    This one:



    You're joking, right? PC and diversity is destroying America? Well, that's quite the platform.


    Next:



    How unusual! Not.

    Irredentism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    And:



    Most countries are building up their military, in one form or another.

    Finally:


    Seriously?



    As we can plainly see, there is NOTHING unusual in any of the above comparisons. Each is commonplace to an extent that any given country will satisfy most, if not all, of them.
    Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?-_73314676_021363450-1-jpg

    27 thousand pro-Kremlin marchers in WW2 uniforms carrying banners reading "Ukrainian Front".

    BBC News - LIVE: Ukraine army on alert after Russia approves troops

    Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?-_73313751_021337386-1-jpg

    'Night Wolves' pro-Putin biker gang establishing presence in Crimea.

    Meet the Night Wolves – Putin's Hell's Angels - Telegraph

  6. #156
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    What..... exactly.... makes you assume that those two things are mutually contradicting?
    What...exactly....are you talking about?

  7. #157
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    With Gates as secretary of defense, Kerry at state and Obama as president what could go wrong? They will all be on the golf coarse.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  8. #158
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Ukraine


    Let's not pretend that Ukraine ever had a clear path to membership.
    I'm not, it's Ukraine's path after membership that is less concerning. Ukraine is highly unlikely to ever become an islamist state or to have an islamist leader in the same way Turkey has Erdogan.

    Oh we're highly likely to have more Eastern European gangs and drugs runners (we already have them) but there are still more basic cultural similarities between us than with Turkey - and I am in favour of Turkey joining the EU. I am not going to look at either country through rose tinted glasses though.

  9. #159
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Not worried about Syria.
    Then on what possible basis do you go Chicken Little on Ukraine?

  10. #160
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    Re: Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

    Just saw this, the situation is still heating up
    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_0...medium=twitter
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

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