View Poll Results: Questions regarding discrimination

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  • Is he discriminating against white power rallies?

    16 76.19%
  • Is he discriminating against white people?

    1 4.76%
  • If there is discrimination, should it be legally allowed?

    13 61.90%
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Thread: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

  1. #111
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    Re: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

    Anybody see The Help?
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  2. #112
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    Re: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    A black man owns a barbeque joint and caters for events regularly; christmas parties, birthdays, weddings, etc.

    A local KKK outfit is having an annual "White Power" Rally and cookout and actually seeks to hire said black man to cater their event.

    The business owner, realizing that the event he'd be catering is a "White Power Rally", doesn't want the groups business and refuses to cater the event.

    A few questions here...

    1. Is the owner discriminating against catering "White Power" events?

    2. Is the owner discriminating against white people?

    3. If there is discrimination, is it discrimination that should be legally allowed?


    1. Yes.

    2. Probably no.

    3. Ah, here's where it gets interesting. The PC crowd will scream YES because it is a type of discrimination they favor, because the subjects are the epitome of all they hate.

    Others will argue that given the bakery/SS-wedding ruling, that the caterer has to serve the White Power people for the same reasons.

    This will be questioned on the basis of homosexuals being a protected class on the assumption they can't help being what they are... while the white power group chose to be what they are. This is debatable as a causal agent for homosexuality has yet to be proven, but most refuse to accept that fact and operate on the popular "inborn" assumption. Insert shrug here... moot point and one I don't really want to argue for the Nth time.

    It is hard to say for sure how this would play out under current law.

    One thing is this: is the White Power group simply a political group, or is a particular religion like Christian Israel/Christian Identity? If the latter, they can claim they are being discriminated against religiously... and that claim could possibly stick.

    Leaving aside the legality question, the question of where is Right and Wrong in this (even if right/wrong disagrees with law)... well that's complicated too.


    Personally, I support the black caterer's right to refuse to cater a White Power party, and I also support the baker's right to decline to participate/supply a SS wedding for religious reasons... because otherwise we'd be forcing by law someone to participate/support something they find abhorrent.

    Somebody else can bake your cake or cook your BBQ. Somebody willing.

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  3. #113
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    Re: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

    Yes, he is discriminating and yes I do believe he should be allowed to do so. Forced servitude is wrong, and it should be within his rights to make a conscientious decision not to use his services to go towards or benefit an event that they feel is wrong. People should have the right to conscientious objection and not be forced to put their personal services towards events that they feel are wrong. It's discrimination, but it should be legal and it isn't necessarily "wrong."
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  4. #114
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    Re: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    A black man owns a barbeque joint and caters for events regularly; christmas parties, birthdays, weddings, etc.

    A local KKK outfit is having an annual "White Power" Rally and cookout and actually seeks to hire said black man to cater their event.

    The business owner, realizing that the event he'd be catering is a "White Power Rally", doesn't want the groups business and refuses to cater the event.

    A few questions here...

    1. Is the owner discriminating against catering "White Power" events?

    2. Is the owner discriminating against white people?

    3. If there is discrimination, is it discrimination that should be legally allowed?
    Business wise, the black man is stupid. You are in a business to make money

    A customer may refuse to buy from *said* bbq joint, but *said* bbq joint may not refuse the service.

  5. #115
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    Re: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    A black man owns a barbeque joint and caters for events regularly; christmas parties, birthdays, weddings, etc.

    A local KKK outfit is having an annual "White Power" Rally and cookout and actually seeks to hire said black man to cater their event.

    The business owner, realizing that the event he'd be catering is a "White Power Rally", doesn't want the groups business and refuses to cater the event.

    A few questions here...

    1. Is the owner discriminating against catering "White Power" events?

    2. Is the owner discriminating against white people?

    3.
    If there is discrimination, is it discrimination that should be legally allowed?



    I don't believe that this is actually happening.

    If it is and someone thinks that they can do something about it, they should get after it.

  6. #116
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    Re: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    Should a muslim caterer be forced to prepare and serve a pork dinner for a customer?
    Oh for the love of Ted.

    Please try to understand Public Accommodation laws before posting, failure to do so makes you look silly.

    Public Accommodation laws require that the goods and services provided by a business cannot be refused based on race, religion, sex, religion, sexual orientation, marital status, family status, veterans status, national origin, ethnicity, etc. (specifics vary by state). The law does not require that goods and services not normally provided must start to be provided just because a customer asks for something. Using your STUPID freaking example, if the Muslim Caterer business model/menu is that they only provide Halal foods, then that is all they are required to sell. If the Muslim caterer is not devoute to his/her faith and routinely provides pork products on their menu, then they cannot refuse to cater an event where a customer requests pork items because the customer is Jewish.

    I hope that helps you understand the difference and how silly the Muslim/Pork meme truly is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Someone should request it and if denied by the caterer, file a lawsuit.
    Please see above the only thing that will happen is the lawyers taking their check will laugh at the individual once the door closes after they leave their office.


    >>>>
    Last edited by WorldWatcher; 02-27-14 at 08:40 PM.

  7. #117
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    Re: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    I don't believe that this is actually happening.
    Well, that would be intelligent of you, since you said the same basic thing pages ago and I already responded clearly stating that this isn't something that was happening but a hypothetical for discussion.

  8. #118
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    Re: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    A black man owns a barbeque joint and caters for events regularly; christmas parties, birthdays, weddings, etc.

    A local KKK outfit is having an annual "White Power" Rally and cookout and actually seeks to hire said black man to cater their event.

    The business owner, realizing that the event he'd be catering is a "White Power Rally", doesn't want the groups business and refuses to cater the event.

    A few questions here...

    1. Is the owner discriminating against catering "White Power" events?

    2. Is the owner discriminating against white people?

    3. If there is discrimination, is it discrimination that should be legally allowed?
    This is a difficult one. I see it this way, if he refuses to sell the the ready made food, he is guilty of discrimination. If he has to deliver cutlery with his logo on it and has to provide staff for the catering then I think he has the right to refuse because he does not want to work such an event out of security and the future survival of his company because there will be very few black customers who will hire him if he did that.

    But as long as it is just the food, he does not have the right to refuse their business IMHO. I cannot say anything else because that would make me a hypocrite because in the discussion about the gay discriminating I said that the bakery should sell them the cake or be guilty of discrimination. And because I am not a hypocrite the black caterer has to adhere to the same principles.
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  9. #119
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    Re: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    This is a difficult one. I see it this way, if he refuses to sell the the ready made food, he is guilty of discrimination. If he has to deliver cutlery with his logo on it and has to provide staff for the catering then I think he has the right to refuse because he does not want to work such an event out of security and the future survival of his company because there will be very few black customers who will hire him if he did that.

    But as long as it is just the food, he does not have the right to refuse their business IMHO. I cannot say anything else because that would make me a hypocrite because in the discussion about the gay discriminating I said that the bakery should sell them the cake or be guilty of discrimination. And because I am not a hypocrite the black caterer has to adhere to the same principles.
    im curious what same principles though
    a personal one?
    not a legal one or one based on rights that i know of

    one is illegal discrimaintion one is not
    the baker broke the law

    unless like i said in my post the KKK is a recognized religion in that state, county or municipality what law should the caterer be breaking?

    do you think the caterer or breaking the law or you just dont like it personally?
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  10. #120
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    Re: Is this unreasonable/illegal discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    A black man owns a barbeque joint and caters for events regularly; christmas parties, birthdays, weddings, etc.

    A local KKK outfit is having an annual "White Power" Rally and cookout and actually seeks to hire said black man to cater their event.

    The business owner, realizing that the event he'd be catering is a "White Power Rally", doesn't want the groups business and refuses to cater the event.

    A few questions here...

    1. Is the owner discriminating against catering "White Power" events?

    2. Is the owner discriminating against white people?

    3. If there is discrimination, is it discrimination that should be legally allowed?
    1) Yes, it is discrimination against the specific event.
    2) No, the owner is only refusing to serve the KKK
    3) This type of discrimination should not be illegal, as it the manís choice as to who he caters.
    The owner likely refused the request for several reasons, which are as follows:
    A) To avoid confrontation, which would likely occur at a KKK rally.
    B) For personal safety, as some KKK groups can become quite violent towards blacks.
    C) The owner may just not support the values of the KKK and chose not to go so that he could not become a target of hate.
    Unless other wise sited, Everything that appears in my posts are personal thoughts on the subject.

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