View Poll Results: The fall of Rome equals US today?

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  • Yes, absolutely

    12 25.00%
  • Some similarities, but not really

    21 43.75%
  • No, not at all

    14 29.17%
  • Other (please elaborate)

    1 2.08%
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Thread: The fall of Rome equals US today?

  1. #81
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The fall of Rome equals US today?

    You hear this a lot. People pointing out the poarallels between the US today and the fall of the Roman empire. Implying, of course, that we are on the downslope of our phase as a country.

    Do you believe this is true? If so, why? If not, why not?
    As a history major, most comparisons of today to ancient Rome are completely overblown. Are we under attack by invading barbarian hordes? no. Are we at the point where we have to split into two or three separate political entities? No. Are we at the point where we can't defend and maintain our political borders? No. As far as political corruption goes, the US rates relatively low on the corruption scale vs. other countries according to surveys by orgs like Transparency International. I'd think of more ludicrous reasons that amateur airmchair historians are wrong in comparing the fall of Rome to the us today but I simply don't have the time or patience to list them all.

    For the record i voted "some similarities but not really."
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #82
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Ok. You can find similarities but it's not the same.
    The US is not a target of any nation for war because the USA has nukes. Nobody will kill themselves by attacking the USA.

    Not letting people starve because they're in a rough patch in their lives is a sign of civilization, not a sign of decay. Failing to help those people get jobs is a sign of incompetence. Get the schools in order and then things will be fine.

    Of course America is not a carbon copy of Rome but the similarities are numerous. At one time no other nation would "kill themselves" by going up against Rome too. As they became weaker and other nations became stronger this changed which dove tails with America right now. Obama wants to get rid of nukes and cut our military.

    The "rough patch" you speak of with food stamps is a misrepresentation. Food stamps is becoming a way of life here for many people just as food distribution was in Rome as it collapsed.

  3. #83
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    As a history major, most comparisons of today to ancient Rome are completely overblown. Are we under attack by invading barbarian hordes? no. Are we at the point where we have to split into two or three separate political entities? No. Are we at the point where we can't defend and maintain our political borders? No. As far as political corruption goes, the US rates relatively low on the corruption scale vs. other countries according to surveys by orgs like Transparency International. I'd think of more ludicrous reasons that amateur airmchair historians are wrong in comparing the fall of Rome to the us today but I simply don't have the time or patience to list them all.

    For the record i voted "some similarities but not really."

    I can't believe you actually asked that question. Our border with Mexico is a joke.

  4. #84
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
    Are you saying that the continuous decline of the middle class buying power is not a long term threat to the economic helath of America?
    I'm saying that the presence of those we label as being under-privileged is no indicator of impending doom. As to the middle class, we have no irrefutable proof that their present woes are in any way irreversible. The nature of a cyclical economic format is to predispose its component parts to periods of boom and bust.

  5. #85
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    You mean 'opulence'. This is possibly the most bizarrely inaccurate interpretation of Roman decline I've ever encountered in my entire life. I'd give a lot to see you stand up and make this claim at an esteemed convention of historians.
    HA! He should try and do it with a bunch of Ancient History grad students, professors would be too polite. Immaturity (lack of tact) combined with knowledge does cause one to speak out in a forthright manner when one encounters ignorance.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Of course America is not a carbon copy of Rome but the similarities are numerous. At one time no other nation would "kill themselves" by going up against Rome too. As they became weaker and other nations became stronger this changed which dove tails with America right now. Obama wants to get rid of nukes and cut our military.

    The "rough patch" you speak of with food stamps is a misrepresentation. Food stamps is becoming a way of life here for many people just as food distribution was in Rome as it collapsed.
    ...

    All western countries have similarities to Rome. For crying out loud, the republic is roman creation. the 3 branches of govt is a roman creation. We have eagles, all western countries have tons of eagles everywhere, because romans had eagles everywhere!

    You don't need the nuclear capability to ruin the world three times over. Once is enough. Nobody wants to die so nobody will attack the USA. No country will attack the USA, I guarantee it. Tell you what. Cut down the military to 10% and if some country attacks you, I'll give you anything you want. Just name it. I can make it happen.

    If it is true, and food stamps are becomign the norm, then it's high time you revision your educational system, not fantasize about the Romans. The Romans had top notch education system till the very end (well, what was back then top notch education). If you think the USA is falling, it's nto falling because of the same reasons as the romans did. It's falling because your govt is screwing up and making petty political games instead of governing!

    FYI: Mexico won't invade you. Even their illegals stopped coming in such numbers.

  7. #87
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    ...

    All western countries have similarities to Rome. For crying out loud, the republic is roman creation. the 3 branches of govt is a roman creation. We have eagles, all western countries have tons of eagles everywhere, because romans had eagles everywhere!

    You don't need the nuclear capability to ruin the world three times over. Once is enough. Nobody wants to die so nobody will attack the USA. No country will attack the USA, I guarantee it. Tell you what. Cut down the military to 10% and if some country attacks you, I'll give you anything you want. Just name it. I can make it happen.

    If it is true, and food stamps are becomign the norm, then it's high time you revision your educational system, not fantasize about the Romans. The Romans had top notch education system till the very end (well, what was back then top notch education). If you think the USA is falling, it's nto falling because of the same reasons as the romans did. It's falling because your govt is screwing up and making petty political games instead of governing!

    FYI: Mexico won't invade you. Even their illegals stopped coming in such numbers.
    Did you miss the part where obama wants to get rid of our nukes and is gutting our military?

    FYI Mexico has invaded America. Mexican immigrants legal and otherwise outnumber Caucasian voters in New Mexico and soon will in Calif. We have no control of our southern border.

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Did you miss the part where obama wants to get rid of our nukes and is gutting our military?

    FYI Mexico has invaded America. Mexican immigrants legal and otherwise outnumber Caucasian voters in New Mexico and soon will in Calif. We have no control of our southern border.
    Obama won't get rid of ALL your nukes. For crying out loud, even before the cold war ended, the USA and the USSR came to an disarmament agreement to reduce the stockpile of nuclear weapons. It's a good thing. Fewer nukes is a good thing for all of us, for all the world and also for americans. The Russians are cutting down on their nukes supplies, so does the USA. If only other countries would also start doing that -> India, Pakistan, China, Israel ; the world would be a better place. (I didn't count Iran because they haven't got nukes yet, but if they do, then they should get rid of them too). As I said, you just need enough nukes to blow the world up once. No need to do an encore.

    The reason the southern US border is a joke is due to border control, not the army. And even if it were an army thing, you don't need a military this large as the USA has it now to safeguard that border. Mexico, the country, i.e. the government issuing orders, won't EVER order to attack the USA. I guarantee it. I'll put my bollocks on the line that Mexico won't attack the USA in this lifetime or the next.

  9. #89
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    I'm saying that the presence of those we label as being under-privileged is no indicator of impending doom.
    Who was talking about the "under-privilege"? I was discussing the middle class.
    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    As to the middle class, we have no irrefutable proof that their present woes are in any way irreversible.
    Nor am I. Our continued path yes, we will be in trouble. But, we can stop the bleeding and move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The constitution says corporations have some of the same rights as "persons".

  10. #90
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
    Who was talking about the "under-privilege"? I was discussing the middle class.
    That's what I was discussing with Sawyer.

    Nor am I. Our continued path yes, we will be in trouble. But, we can stop the bleeding and move on.
    It'll take care of itself, I'm sure.

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