View Poll Results: The fall of Rome equals US today?

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  • Yes, absolutely

    12 25.00%
  • Some similarities, but not really

    21 43.75%
  • No, not at all

    14 29.17%
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Thread: The fall of Rome equals US today?

  1. #71
    Student BigRedChief's Avatar
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well yes, but in many ways the strong middle class is also the elite of the modern day.
    I don't think you know what that word means.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The constitution says corporations have some of the same rights as "persons".

  2. #72
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Along with sovereign nations that have yet to do so. The US included.

    Inequality doesn't necessarily precipitate collapse.
    The similarities to a failing Rome are there. The emperor (obama) living like royalty while more and more citizens are unemployed and become dependent on the government for the basics of life (food stamps).

  3. #73
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
    I don't think you know what that word means.
    Yes I do... I maybe should have used "ruling class" instead though, which is closer to what I am trying to point out.
    PeteEU

  4. #74
    Imposition of miscellany
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    The similarities to a failing Rome are there. The emperor (obama) living like royalty while more and more citizens are unemployed and become dependent on the government for the basics of life (food stamps).
    Dude, it's spurious to attempt any ahistorical comparison, simply because there are the oppressed. You could make just as compelling a case for comparison with Australia, Tibet or Outer Mongolia.

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    There have always been poor people and rich people.

    Today however, the poorest american is wealthier than the wealthiest emperor of Rome of all time. And I'm not even joking.

    Giving food to people was a common way to earn popularity and keep the peace. This was done because the Romans had a top notch agricultural system, best of it's time, and could produce a lot of food. Irrigation was top notch,
    etc. The fact that there is abundance is not sign of "collapse", it's a sign that things are going well and of progress and prosperity. Yes, politicians used that prosperity to garner votes and popularity but that's not to say that abundence in itself is wrong.
    Jesus Christ man. The Church, after it became established, did a lot of charity in the Roman Empire.

    Rome fell due to a lot of factors. Health was one -> as many said, lead poisoning was a serious thing. Romans were smart but it would be centuries after that people found the properties of lead, scientifically. The next thing was the separation between east and west. It was just the western roman empire that collapsed. The other was that there were too many enemies on too many frontiers. The next thing was tribalization of the army if you will. Powerful generals that lead large armies would earn the loyalty of those armies and then they'd make a civil war to become emperors. This was because the military stopped being made just by romans with roman values, but also of people who weren't fully romanized yet and they didn't have any loyalty to the notion of republic. They were loyal to the "strongman" in charge and to whom paid them.

    So. Lead poisoning. [B]multiple enemies. Splitted empire. Fractured military. Barbarian invasions. Religious turmoil -> Christianity became the norm but not everyone in the empire wanted to be a Christian[/B]. Court intrigues.
    The only way abundence played into this is because abundence made the Romans targets. That's it.
    I put in bold the similarities in your post America has to a Failing Roman empire

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    True. I meant that, what's happening is other regions of the world are beginning to pull themselves up by the boot straps. Take China, for example. In effect, US hegemony would decrease as other nations advanced and become ever more self-sufficient. I don't subscribe to the idea that this in itself equates with decline.
    I'm talking more about this.


    The Romans were "even bigger" till the very end. The Eastern Roman Empire became even bigger until the jihads started taking a toll on them in the XIth century.

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    Student BigRedChief's Avatar
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Inequality doesn't necessarily precipitate collapse.
    Are you saying that the continuous decline of the middle class buying power is not a long term threat to the economic helath of America?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The constitution says corporations have some of the same rights as "persons".

  8. #78
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Dude, it's spurious to attempt any ahistorical comparison, simply because there are the oppressed. You could make just as compelling a case for comparison with Australia, Tibet or Outer Mongolia.
    Just one of the reasons and similarities but obama living like royalty while more and more citizens beg for his scraps is a big one.

  9. #79
    Student BigRedChief's Avatar
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yes I do... I maybe should have used "ruling class" instead though, which is closer to what I am trying to point out.
    The "middle class" of America is not the "ruling class" or the "elite".
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The constitution says corporations have some of the same rights as "persons".

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I put in bold the similarities in your post America has to a Failing Roman empire
    Ok. You can find similarities but it's not the same.
    The US is not a target of any nation for war because the USA has nukes. Nobody will kill themselves by attacking the USA.

    Not letting people starve because they're in a rough patch in their lives is a sign of civilization, not a sign of decay. Failing to help those people get jobs is a sign of incompetence. Get the schools in order and then things will be fine.

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