View Poll Results: The fall of Rome equals US today?

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  • Yes, absolutely

    12 25.00%
  • Some similarities, but not really

    21 43.75%
  • No, not at all

    14 29.17%
  • Other (please elaborate)

    1 2.08%
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Thread: The fall of Rome equals US today?

  1. #51
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Basten View Post
    There's a lot wrong in this post, but none more than the Usurper comment.

    Do you even know what an Usurper is? Obama is no such thing. I get that you don't like or respect him, that is your right, but this is just disingenuous and ignorant to a fault.
    Usurpation was given as one of the main reasons for the decline of the Roman empire in my research.

    Roman usurper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Whether Obama is actually a usurper will be left for history to decide. IMO, he lacked the proper credentials and experience to be POTUS therefor he's encroaching on the WH.
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Beware of the single factor explanation of complex social and political changes. It will do you some good.
    Never said it was a single factor, but a critical factor. Much of what you posted is correct up to a point. We know that lead pipes, lead paint and so on lead to lead poisoning. Roman women used lead laced make-up. Some believed that adding lead to wine was healthy. The list goes on and on, and we know today that lead products are bad.. very bad.

    Now was it the sole reason? Of course not, but it was a considerable if not critical aspect of the decline over a long period of time.
    PeteEU

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    keep in prospective the roman republic, and the roman empire.

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Never said it was a single factor, but a critical factor. Much of what you posted is correct up to a point. We know that lead pipes, lead paint and so on lead to lead poisoning. Roman women used lead laced make-up. Some believed that adding lead to wine was healthy. The list goes on and on, and we know today that lead products are bad.. very bad.

    Now was it the sole reason? Of course not, but it was a considerable if not critical aspect of the decline over a long period of time.
    Yet even that I demonstrated was in contention, as it was the author's thesis that it was not a critical aspect.
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Never said it was a single factor, but a critical factor. Much of what you posted is correct up to a point. We know that lead pipes, lead paint and so on lead to lead poisoning. Roman women used lead laced make-up. Some believed that adding lead to wine was healthy. The list goes on and on, and we know today that lead products are bad.. very bad.

    Now was it the sole reason? Of course not, but it was a considerable if not critical aspect of the decline over a long period of time.
    Yet even that I demonstrated was in contention, as it was the author's thesis that it was not a critical aspect.
    There is other evidence of the importance of lead poisoning than that to be found in ancient texts and archaeological finds of lead pipes and other artifacts: -- Lead Poisoning in Roman Skeletons
    A friend alerted me to an IO9 post, "The First Artificial Sweetener Poisoned Lots of Romans." It's a (very) brief look at some of the uses of lead (Pb) in the Roman world, including the hoary hypothesis that rampant lead poisoning led to the downfall of Rome - you know, along with gonorrhea, Christianity, slavery, and the kitchen sink.

    The fact the Romans loved their lead isn't in question. ... but what almost all stories about the use of lead in ancient Rome miss is the osteological evidence.
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  6. #56
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Rome fell because of the military costs of maintaining its empire. Most great empires fall due to out of control defense spending.
    Ummm... They were overwhelmed by rampaging hordes of "barbarian" Eastern European and Germanic peoples, who were sent fleeing in the general direction of the Roman Empire by the migration of the Huns across the Eurasian Steppe, which, in turn, the Chinese Han dynasty had unintentionally kicked off centuries earlier by chasing the Xiongnu off of their own borders. Rather large portions of the Empire and its military had also been depopulated by the combination of plague and civil war in the decades leading up to the invasions, which basically left Rome's economy and ability to defend itself compromised in comparison to earlier eras.

    I kind of doubt that a reduction in defense spending would have made things any better here.

    A smaller, less well defended empire would have only been easier to ravage.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-27-14 at 03:31 AM.

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I think the comparisons to Rome usually just result in very poor analogies. It's the attempt to fit the square pegs of modern policy dilemmas into the circles of Roman civilizational woes. Even the tropes like 'Roman military spending' aren't as simple or accurate as they are being presented and certainly can't be easily compared to the United States or any other country in the world today. The differences between our world and theirs is more extraordinary than we give ourselves credit for.
    Only an idiot will believe "Yeah, but this time it's different." Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

  8. #58
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Ummm... They were overwhelmed by rampaging hordes of "barbarian" Eastern European and Germanic peoples, who were sent fleeing in the general direction of the Roman Empire by the migration of the Huns across the Eurasian Steppe, which, in turn, the Chinese Han dynasty had unintentionally kicked off centuries earlier by chasing the Xiongnu off of their own borders. Rather large portions of the Empire and its military had also been depopulated by the combination of plague and civil war in the decades leading up to the invasions, which basically left Rome's economy and ability to defend itself compromised in comparison to earlier eras.

    I kind of doubt that a reduction in defense spending would have made things any better here.

    A smaller, less well defended empire would have only been easier to ravage.
    That was the point though. Huge empires are extremely expensive to defend and invariably they collapse because of that. Rome simply did not have the resources to maintain the level of military needed to defend their empire indefinitely.
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  9. #59
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The fall of Rome equals US today?

    You hear this a lot. People pointing out the poarallels between the US today and the fall of the Roman empire. Implying, of course, that we are on the downslope of our phase as a country.

    Do you believe this is true? If so, why? If not, why not?
    Not even remotely.

    Aside from some tenuous parallel with comparison of 'empires', the US isn't in decline.

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Rome fell because its citizens became a culture that felt entitled to oppulance. The people became weak celf centered and spoiled much like the libs in US society.
    You mean 'opulence'. This is possibly the most bizarrely inaccurate interpretation of Roman decline I've ever encountered in my entire life. I'd give a lot to see you stand up and make this claim at an esteemed convention of historians.

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