View Poll Results: The fall of Rome equals US today?

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  • Yes, absolutely

    12 25.00%
  • Some similarities, but not really

    21 43.75%
  • No, not at all

    14 29.17%
  • Other (please elaborate)

    1 2.08%
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Thread: The fall of Rome equals US today?

  1. #21
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    some of this is just pathetic
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The main reason of the fall of the Roman Empire was more sinister and historians are beginning to realize this. The Roman Empire had a massive population decline of "true Romans" and especially among the powerful elite. This caused massive problems over many many decades and even centuries. The reason was rather simple... lead poisoning.

    Roman water systems were built with lead pipes and there was a belief among the upper classes that lead was good for you. What we know today is it is far from it and causes things like insanity and sterility.

    This eventually lead to a weak Empire and hence its downfall.
    I'm not an ancient specialist, but just to let you know, it tends to be rather foolish to follow reductionist thinking for history-especially attributing the rise and fall of empires to lead poisoning.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The fall of Rome equals US today?

    You hear this a lot. People pointing out the poarallels between the US today and the fall of the Roman empire. Implying, of course, that we are on the downslope of our phase as a country.

    Do you believe this is true? If so, why? If not, why not?
    I do think there are a lot of similarities. I also believe our best days are behind us as instead of us handing our children a better nation to live in, we when we die will be handing them a nation in worst shape than when we entered it. Gallup had a poll a couple of month ago I wished I would have saved where they asked are our best days as a nation ahead of us or behind us. Around 45% answered behind us vs. 40% ahead of us.

    It is the debt that worries me the most, within a couple of years the interest payments on that debt will replace defense spending as the largest outlay, the number one budget item. Just think what may happen to those payment if interest rates return to normal, instead of paying 1-2% we have to pay 5-6%. We will be unable to sustain that.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  4. #24
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The main reason of the fall of the Roman Empire was more sinister and historians are beginning to realize this. The Roman Empire had a massive population decline of "true Romans" and especially among the powerful elite. This caused massive problems over many many decades and even centuries. The reason was rather simple... lead poisoning.

    Roman water systems were built with lead pipes and there was a belief among the upper classes that lead was good for you. What we know today is it is far from it and causes things like insanity and sterility.

    This eventually lead to a weak Empire and hence its downfall.
    I love how people with an agenda of one sort or another have tried to use the fall of the Romans as their pet example to demonstrate their validity of their agenda. Now we may be finding out it was quite mundane. Lol
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Rome fell because its citizens became a culture that felt entitled to oppulance. The people became weak celf centered and spoiled much like the libs in US society.

    Another one ignorant of real history. There was no single cause leading up to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Don't forget that those called "citizen" in the Roman Empire were a minority of those governed.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I'm not an ancient specialist, but just to let you know, it tends to be rather foolish to follow reductionist thinking for history-especially attributing the rise and fall of empires to lead poisoning.
    Still, there is as much plausibility to it as other more agenda driven explanations. Fact is, we don't know enough of the full story, and probably can't.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    ITT: people who don't know much about the roman empire.

  8. #28
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I do think there are a lot of similarities. I also believe our best days are behind us as instead of us handing our children a better nation to live in, we when we die will be handing them a nation in worst shape than when we entered it. Gallup had a poll a couple of month ago I wished I would have saved where they asked are our best days as a nation ahead of us or behind us. Around 45% answered behind us vs. 40% ahead of us.

    It is the debt that worries me the most, within a couple of years the interest payments on that debt will replace defense spending as the largest outlay, the number one budget item. Just think what may happen to those payment if interest rates return to normal, instead of paying 1-2% we have to pay 5-6%. We will be unable to sustain that.
    Very good post.
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    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  9. #29
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Another one ignorant of real history. There was no single cause leading up to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Don't forget that those called "citizen" in the Roman Empire were a minority of those governed.
    I was just pointing out the main similarity between the decline of the Romans and us.

  10. #30
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The fall of Rome equals US today?

    You hear this a lot. People pointing out the poarallels between the US today and the fall of the Roman empire. Implying, of course, that we are on the downslope of our phase as a country.

    Do you believe this is true? If so, why? If not, why not?
    End of America as global superpower ≠ fall of country.

    Nonetheless the parallels are there. Or, perhaps to sound a little less alarmist, the potential for those parallels to be a serious problem are there.

    Rome.info > Fall of the Roman Empire, decline of ancient Rome

    Decline in Morals and Values
    Even during PaxRomana (A long period from Augstus to Marcus Aurelius when the Roman empire was stable and relativly peaceful) there were 32,000 prostitutes in Rome. Emperors like Caligula and Nero became infamous for wasting money on lavish parties where guests drank and ate until they became sick. The most popular amusement was watching the gladiatorial combats in the Colosseum.
    This is so relative as to be meaningless. It's easier to focus on the weaknesses of the current age because the greatest strengths tend to get mixed up in them, sort of like how we imagine that all the music from the sixties was brilliant only because the really awful stuff was eventually forgotten. I would only say that greater economic inequality has played a devastating role in shattering the strength of the stable nuclear family, which definitely plays a part in morals and values.

    Public Health
    There were many public health and environmental problems. Many of the wealthy had water brought to their homes through lead pipes. Previously the aqueducts had even purified the water but at the end lead pipes were thought to be preferable. The wealthy death rate was very high. The continuous interaction of people at the Colosseum, the blood and death probable spread disease. Those who lived on the streets in continuous contact allowed for an uninterrupted strain of disease much like the homeless in the poorer run shelters of today. Alcohol use increased as well adding to the incompetency of the general public.
    True. Bad diet and lack of exercise are leading to record diabetes and heart disease, and health care is reactive instead of preventive. American health is really bad.

    Political Corruption
    One of the most difficult problems was choosing a new emperor. Unlike Greece where transition may not have been smooth but was at least consistent, the Romans never created an effective system to determine how new emperors would be selected. The choice was always open to debate between the old emperor, the Senate, the Praetorian Guard (the emperor's's private army), and the army. Gradually, the Praetorian Guard gained complete authority to choose the new emperor, who rewarded the guard who then became more influential, perpetuating the cycle. Then in 186 A. D. the army strangled the new emperor, the practice began of selling the throne to the highest bidder. During the next 100 years, Rome had 37 different emperors - 25 of whom were removed from office by assassination. This contributed to the overall weaknesses, decline and fall of the empire.
    True. Many Americans feel their presidential candidates are chosen for them in a format in which they have no voice. Add to that lobbying and campaign contributions that clearly favor the wealthiest, I definitely give a nod to this. The result an increasing number of Americans feel alienated from the democratic process.

    Unemployment
    During the latter years of the empire farming was done on large estates called latifundia that were owned by wealthy men who used slave labor. A farmer who had to pay workmen could not produce goods as cheaply. Many farmers could not compete with these low prices and lost or sold their farms. This not only undermined the citizen farmer who passed his values to his family, but also filled the cities with unemployed people. At one time, the emperor was importing grain to feed more than 100,000 people in Rome alone. These people were not only a burden but also had little to do but cause trouble and contribute to an ever increasing crime rate.
    True. Unemployment is high with no relief in the immediate future, and apropos of the above global warming and the current drought is going to play havoc with our food supply.

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