View Poll Results: The fall of Rome equals US today?

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  • Yes, absolutely

    12 25.00%
  • Some similarities, but not really

    21 43.75%
  • No, not at all

    14 29.17%
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    1 2.08%
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Thread: The fall of Rome equals US today?

  1. #111
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    RiverDad's Avatar
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Inequality doesn't necessarily precipitate collapse.
    That's right. There is some type of threshold beyond which inequality can't exist because the economic system is no longer self-sustaining. Before that threshold is crossed there is usually some form of revolution.

  2. #112
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Rome fell due to Barbarian Invasions. We're falling for a similar reason - we're importing massive amounts of Third World people. You can't be a First World society, never mind the Leader of the Free World, if your society is characterized as Third World.

    It's people who make a society. If this wasn't so, then we could either impose or actively promote that all Third World countries adopt the US Constitution and thereby eradicate their Third World status.
    This could have been written (and basically was) in 1845. Also in 1890. Also in 1910. Also in 1921....etc.

    The similarity here is that the people who made this argument have been wrong for about 200 years. And still aren't learning.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  3. #113
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    This could have been written (and basically was) in 1845. Also in 1890. Also in 1910. Also in 1921....etc.

    The similarity here is that the people who made this argument have been wrong for about 200 years. And still aren't learning.
    You're wrong for a number of reasons. The primary reasons are that the social science data shows that there are vast gulfs in various metrics even into the 4th generation and this didn't occur with past immigration waves.

  4. #114
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    If immigration was the cause, it would've been over long, long ago. Not just for the US, but for many countries, in many eras. Let's assume it's a contributor: it's obviously so much more than that that to focus on it is naive at best or trolling at worst.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  5. #115
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Absolutely! Once a people lose their moral compass then there's nothing that can't be rationalized. Society exists because as a people we agree to a certain set of rules or laws to maintain a safe orderly environment for the propagation of our species.

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You're wrong for a number of reasons. The primary reasons are that the social science data shows that there are vast gulfs in various metrics even into the 4th generation and this didn't occur with past immigration waves.
    Yeah..right.

    Let's see the data. And let's not see it come from American Thinker either.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  7. #117
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Rome fell because of the military costs of maintaining its empire. Most great empires fall due to out of control defense spending.
    Well we may not be an empire but we do have a far ranging military presence that is costing us billions each year...
    War is not a tool to satisfy your emotional outbursts.

  8. #118
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    That was the point though. Huge empires are extremely expensive to defend and invariably they collapse because of that. Rome simply did not have the resources to maintain the level of military needed to defend their empire indefinitely.
    Again, however; the factors which ultimately brought the Roman Empire down had nothing to do with military spending.

    The barbarians and plagues would have come either way regardless of Rome's size or spending. Having a smaller empire or less expensive military wouldn't have helped anything in this regard.

    Over extended time scales, the likelihood of any system collapsing ultimately approaches 1. I don't see any particular evidence that large is any better than small in this regard.

    Imperial China, for instance, endured for millennia in one form or another before finally collapsing.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-28-14 at 03:02 AM.

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