View Poll Results: The fall of Rome equals US today?

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  • Yes, absolutely

    12 25.00%
  • Some similarities, but not really

    21 43.75%
  • No, not at all

    14 29.17%
  • Other (please elaborate)

    1 2.08%
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Thread: The fall of Rome equals US today?

  1. #91
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
    The "middle class" of America is not the "ruling class" or the "elite".
    Technically it is. It is the "middle class" that vote most and hence have the biggest pull. That they dont exercise this vote as everyone wants is another matter. But it is the middle class that is the "power" in US (and most western countries) politics. And that is no difference between the Roman ruling class which was in numbers very small but had the same influence on ruling as the "middle class" has now. That individuals could in Rome and now in the US influence the outcome big time is another matter.
    PeteEU

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Moral decay? Rome was far more immoral during its most successful period.

    On the whole Rome was never a particularly immoral society.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  3. #93
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    On the whole Rome was never a particularly immoral society.
    The sex and food that we here about is one thing, but there are some Roman virtues too, but ultimately the society itself was a militaristic feast built on the back of slaves. Not that the Romans were unique in that respect, but still....when Augustus makes Rome a 'city of marble' its because the slaves are in those marble mines in Northern Italy, toiling away for the glory of the Emperor....personally I love Roman history because notwithstanding their shortcomings, there was still a lot of potential there.

  4. #94
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Moral decay? Rome was far more immoral during its most successful period.
    On the whole Rome was never a particularly immoral society.
    Calling a society, whether that of Rome in its heyday, or any other society in our past, immoral, means one is applying contemporary standards to the actions of our ancestors. Morality is not a fixed object, it has changed throughout human history.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  5. #95
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Calling a society, whether that of Rome in its heyday, or any other society in our past, immoral, means one is applying contemporary standards to the actions of our ancestors. Morality is not a fixed object, it has changed throughout human history.
    I agree. By our standards they were a violent society - but no more so than any other society of their time - and the Caligulia image of decadent, orgy loving Romans, with the rare exception of some of the ruling class, is pretty much false.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  6. #96
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    The sex and food that we here about is one thing, but there are some Roman virtues too, but ultimately the society itself was a militaristic feast built on the back of slaves. Not that the Romans were unique in that respect, but still....when Augustus makes Rome a 'city of marble' its because the slaves are in those marble mines in Northern Italy, toiling away for the glory of the Emperor....personally I love Roman history because notwithstanding their shortcomings, there was still a lot of potential there.
    Honestly there really wasn't much of the sex and food stuff, excepting some early emperors. Point taken on slavery but it was a common practice back then.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    You're right, that's giving him too much credit.

    How about *unqualified absolutist* who goes beyond his legal authority.
    We talking about BushII again????

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Usurpation was given as one of the main reasons for the decline of the Roman empire in my research.

    Roman usurper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Whether Obama is actually a usurper will be left for history to decide. IMO, he lacked the proper credentials and experience to be POTUS therefor he's encroaching on the WH.
    There's nothing to decide, he's not a usurper. His credentials and experiences are irrelevant, he beat the other guys in the election. America voted for him, they wanted him, not your guy. Get over it and stop spewing nonsensical accusations. What bull****.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The fall of Rome equals US today?

    You hear this a lot. People pointing out the poarallels between the US today and the fall of the Roman empire. Implying, of course, that we are on the downslope of our phase as a country.

    Do you believe this is true? If so, why? If not, why not?
    Why are you comparing it to the fall of the Empire? Wouldn't the fall of the Republic be a bit more of a parallel?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  10. #100
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    Re: The fall of Rome equals US today?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The fall of Rome equals US today?

    You hear this a lot. People pointing out the poarallels between the US today and the fall of the Roman empire. Implying, of course, that we are on the downslope of our phase as a country.

    Do you believe this is true? If so, why? If not, why not?
    Right idea, wrong comparison.

    The comparative decline of the United States corresponds more to the fall of the Roman Republic than the Roman Empire.

    Oligarchical forces have locked our representative democracy in a perpetual gridlock that prevents them from taking action on the dysfunctions that are slowly grinding away at our society. Political nihilism is at an all time high and our culture has become so despondent that nothing shocks or outrages us unless the other guy did it (which is the same as not at all). The perfect climate for a strong central figure to come and impose his will and sense of direction on the whole body of society.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

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