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How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

We should be raising our daughters


  • Total voters
    86
That's incorrect. I also get to determine the options for the lives of anyone else who relies on me to provide for them. That would include my fiance and any children we eventually have. Of course they're welcome to leave any time they don't like those options, but at that point they become their own problem, not mine.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, you want to CONTROL the lives of anyone unlucky enough to have you "providing for them." That's a fate I am so happy to AVOID.

Women who are thinking of getting married really need to find out EXACTLY what their boyfriend or fiance expects from them long before marriage is even considered. This is done by having long conversations with these guys in the first weeks of dating. That way, women can see what kind of TRAP they might be walking into by marrying such an extremist and run as far AWAY from this guy as possible.
 
I look at it this way.... Are we Better or Worse off TODAY than we were prior to the Women's Sufferage Movement gaining traction in the early part of the 20th Century? Technologically we are immensely superior, but socially and societally I would suggest that we are incalculably inferior to the society that existed prior to the Women's Sufferage and then Femistm movements of hte 20th Century.

I so liked your first post on this thread. I thought to myself, "Who has hijacked Tigger's account??" ;) But if someone did, I see you've wrested it back.

If the quality of society as a whole depends upon women being kept in their place, not being able to vote, staying in their so-called traditional roles despite their desires, talents and abilities, then somebody's got an unfair lock on defining "quality of society."

There are many things wrong with our society today. It's not Utopia. But to blame those ills on the Suffrage and Feminist movements -- in other words, to blame women? Is wrong-wrong-wrong. If you want to place blame, put it squarely on the politicians who shape our society. Blame the 80% male make-up of our legislatures for it is they who social engineer our world. (I think 80% is being conservative.)
 
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, you want to CONTROLthe lives of anyone unlucky enough to have you "providing for them." That's a fate I am so happy to AVOID.

As are many moder women. Unfortunately that is doing great damage to our society as a whole and both genders specifically.

Women who are thinking of getting married really need to find out EXACTLY what their boyfriend or fiance expects from them long before marriage is even considered. This is done by having long conversations with these guys in the first weeks of dating. That way, women can see what kind of TRAP they might be walking into by marrying such an extremist and run as far AWAY from this guy as possible.

On THAT we will most definitely agree. It shouldn't take more than one or two dates to have a very good idea if you could potentially see yourself with the Man or woman you're dating for a long time. That's why I had very few second dates over the years... I was very up-front about what I was looking for in and from a woman and I found few who could even come close to meeting those criteria. Realize that there are some women out there who are looking for just such an extremist. Also realize that you women are being judged at least as much as we Men are. Hell, I've had times where I've walked out in the middle of the first date, or in one case never even went inside the restaurant (I saw her get out of her car and from the bumper stickers on it knew we had nothing in common so I called her and told her I wasn't coming).
 
If the quality of society as a whole depends upon women being kept in their place, not being able to vote, staying in their so-called traditional roles despite their desires, talents and abilities, then somebody's got an unfair lock on defining "quality of society."

The quality of a society depends on both Men and women being kept in their place, Maggie. That's what I don't think many of you are understanding. I'm not just suggesting there is a proper role for women. There's also a proper role for MEN. It's a different role, but it is just as cast in stone and in some ways is just as limiting as a woman's role.

There are many things wrong with our society today. It's not Utopia. But to blame those ills on the Suffrage and Feminist movements -- in other words, to blame women? Is wrong-wrong-wrong. If you want to place blame, put it squarely on the politicians who shape our society. Blame the 80% male make-up of our legislatures for it is they who social engineer our world. (I think 80% is being conservative.)

I agree that the blame should be widely spread. What I do suggest the Sufferage and Feminist movements did was to start that rock slide. They aren't the only stones headed down the hillside, but they were among the first. The politicians, while an obvious and very public symptom, are not the problem itself. The problem is a society which no longer has any social or moral standards. We have removed Right and Wrong from the social and societal equations and now live in the great grey quagmire that is moral ambiguity.When you do not have solid rules and social norms, which are enforced across the board you find yourself in a situation where anything goes, and society breaks down with it. We could replace every politician in the country TOMORROW and it wouldn't make a single difference until we change the society and individuals they rule over.
 
I so liked your first post on this thread. I thought to myself, "Who has hijacked Tigger's account??" ;) But if someone did, I see you've wrested it back.

I wanted to reply to this separately....

Nobody hijacked my account. I truly believe what was said in that post. The woman is the foundation of the relationship. She is the glue that holds a family together. You had to know what I meant by that entire post, Maggie. You are more than smart enough to understand that I was not suggesting that women were ever intended to be the Leaders of the family, or to really be part of society separately and independently from that family.
 
The quality of a society depends on both Men and women being kept in their place, Maggie. That's what I don't think many of you are understanding. I'm not just suggesting there is a proper role for women. There's also a proper role for MEN. It's a different role, but it is just as cast in stone and in some ways is just as limiting as a woman's role.

I agree that the blame should be widely spread. What I do suggest the Sufferage and Feminist movements did was to start that rock slide. They aren't the only stones headed down the hillside, but they were among the first. The politicians, while an obvious and very public symptom, are not the problem itself. The problem is a society which no longer has any social or moral standards. We have removed Right and Wrong from the social and societal equations and now live in the great grey quagmire that is moral ambiguity.When you do not have solid rules and social norms, which are enforced across the board you find yourself in a situation where anything goes, and society breaks down with it. We could replace every politician in the country TOMORROW and it wouldn't make a single difference until we change the society and individuals they rule over.

If every man were a strong family leader and teacher, put his family first and had a good work ethic, our society would be very different. But the majority of men do not. Never did. It is the human condition.

Where you would choose to raise your daughters to be compliant wives and mothers, most of the rest of us choose to raise ours to be strong and independent wives and mothers. To have choices. Just as a man should be raised to be more than just a husband and father. Women have been used since the beginning of time. Our biological urge to nest has forever been used against us by the exploitive men in our lives.

If you want women to be different, change men.
 
If you want women to be different, change men.

You cannot change either gender independently of the other. They both have to be changed at the same time. In other words SOCIETY as a whole needs to be changed. That's not going to be easy. Many women will fight tooth and nail against going back to a more Traditional role in life. Many males will fight equally hard to avoid having to take responsibility for their choices in life and actually deal with what it takes to be a Man. At this point, fixing the issues may not even be possible without massive social unrest.
 
You cannot change either gender independently of the other. They both have to be changed at the same time. In other words SOCIETY as a whole needs to be changed. That's not going to be easy. Many women will fight tooth and nail against going back to a more Traditional role in life. Many males will fight equally hard to avoid having to take responsibility for their choices in life and actually deal with what it takes to be a Man. At this point, fixing the issues may not even be possible without massive social unrest.

You're right. I see what I assume to be good young men on this site who would no more be comfortable with their wives staying home in a more traditional role than the man in the moon. She's gotta' pull her weight. There was a thread that showed that just recently. If men just realized how much easier their own lives would be if they had a stay-at-home wife and mother. But it's all down to bringing money into the household.

Our economy is based on ever-increasing consumption. There's method to the madness. But it's still madness.
 
You're right. I see what I assume to be good young men on this site who would no more be comfortable with their wives staying home in a more traditional role than the man in the moon. She's gotta' pull her weight. There was a thread that showed that just recently. If men just realized how much easier their own lives would be if they had a stay-at-home wife and mother. But it's all down to bringing money into the household.

Our economy is based on ever-increasing consumption. There's method to the madness. But it's still madness.

Single income families are a relic of the past.
Very few jobs pay adequately enough for such a "luxury".

That's to say nothing of women who actually have dreams, goals, and ambitions to have a professional career.

While some ladies might chose to stay home during child rearing years, the vast majority I'd assume would prefer to do something constructive, productive, creative, and meaningful outside of the home.

And more power to them I say.

Any person, regardless of gender, should have the opportunity to chase dreams, desires, goals, and ambitions.
 
You're right. I see what I assume to be good young men on this site who would no more be comfortable with their wives staying home in a more traditional role than the man in the moon. She's gotta' pull her weight. There was a thread that showed that just recently. If men just realized how much easier their own lives would be if they had a stay-at-home wife and mother. But it's all down to bringing money into the household.

Thank you for seeing exactly what I was talking about. IF both genders just took a moment to step back and try to take a look at our society today compared to what it was in the 1950's and early 1960's (not all that long ago) and honestly asked ourselves what has changed, I think that even most of our current high school graduates could see where the most obvious difference lays..... in the family, social, and societal concepts of the day. Men's and women's lives would both be much easier, and society as a whole would improve dramatically if we just moved back towards that more traditional, family based society. You are right though, it's all about wealth.....

Our economy is based on ever-increasing consumption. There's method to the madness. But it's still madness.

You're absolutely right. It is madness. Why do we need a 42" HD Plasma 3D television set in EVERY ROOM of the house? Why do we need brand new cars every 3-4 years? Why does the stay-at-home-parent need a brand new car, period? We have created the means to our own destruction by trying to buy ourselves happiness. It doesn't work. The two-income family was driven by the desire to have THINGS. Personally, I'd prefer to have a 6-7 year old car, one television set, no video game system, and a bunch of clothes that I'm comfortable in and have been for a year or two than to have my fiance working. ESPECIALLY if we ever have children.
 
Single income families are a relic of the past. Very few jobs pay adequately enough for such a "luxury".

Interesting. Especially since my fiance and I live quite pleasantly on my roughly $65,000 a year salary less than 15 miles outside the second largest city in New England. I don't have a Master's or PhD to my name. I have an Associate's Degree from what may as well have been a trade school. It's possible to do, so long as you are willing to be practical and intelligent about how you do things.

That's to say nothing of women who actually have dreams, goals, and ambitions to have a professional career.

Life isn't about what we WANT to do, Dragonfly. It never has been in the course of human history.

While some ladies might chose to stay home during child rearing years, the vast majority I'd assume would prefer to do something constructive, productive, creative, and meaningful outside of the home.

Why is it that they can't do something constructive, productive, creative and meaningful INSIDE the home. For examply, my fiance makes a little money on the side baking specialty cupcakes and cakes for friends and family birthday parties and other events. We're not getting rich off it; hell we're barely breaking even on it, but it gives her something constructive to do a couple days a week.
 
Why is it that they can't do something constructive, productive, creative and meaningful INSIDE the home.

Nobody is saying they/she can't or shouldn't. Assuming that's what they want and chose to do.

You're the one saying your fiance SHOULDN'T and CAN'T be a nurse, teacher, engineer, carpenter, plumber, pilot, insurance agent, auto mechanic, police officer, .......
 
That's precisely where our philosophies on life are so opposite it's beyond funny.

Yes, that is a place where our philosophies diverge dramatically. You seem to prefer the idea of standing before your Maker at the end of your life and sing.... "I DID IT MYYYYYYY WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY!" whereas I prefer to be able to stand there and say "I did it the Right Way." At least in my mind, the response of our Maker to those two concepts will be very different.
 
Nobody is saying they/she can't or shouldn't. Assuming that's what they want and chose to do.

You're the one saying your fiance SHOULDN'T and CAN'T be a nurse, teacher, engineer, carpenter, plumber, pilot, insurance agent, auto mechanic, police officer, .......

No, what I'm saying is that the Shouldn't be any of those things and that if she were to choose to be one of them, that it would mean losing me permanently. People have the Right to choose to do almost anything they want. I disagree with that Right, but as of this time it does still exist. However, they do not have the Right to force me to interact with them on a professional or personal level IF they choose to exercise the Right to determinetheir own career path.
 
Interesting. Especially since my fiance and I live quite pleasantly on my roughly $65,000 a year salary less than 15 miles outside the second largest city in New England. I don't have a Master's or PhD to my name. I have an Associate's Degree from what may as well have been a trade school. It's possible to do, so long as you are willing to be practical and intelligent about how you do things.

She said 'families' so to me, that means kids. And even one kid makes a huge difference in terms of finances....for most people anyway. Not sure what it would entail in your world.
 
She said 'families' so to me, that means kids. And even one kid makes a huge difference in terms of finances....for most people anyway. Not sure what it would entail in your world.

Our current living situation would allow for a child to be added without having to move. We would have to make some sacrifices in terms of entertainment budget and a couple of other things, but all in all we should be able to absorb the one child that we've discussed having without too much trouble. Especially since there would be no need to pay for daycare since she'd be at home all the time. Hell, my parents raised three of us kids on my father's salary which was just about what I make now.
 
Why is it that they can't do something constructive, productive, creative and meaningful INSIDE the home. For examply, my fiance makes a little money on the side baking specialty cupcakes and cakes for friends and family birthday parties and other events. We're not getting rich off it; hell we're barely breaking even on it, but it gives her something constructive to do a couple days a week.

It seems you would refuse a wife or daughter the opportunities to follow their passions, esp. if they occurred outside the home. For example riding horses or gymnastics or singing.

Very sad. As you said.....no happiness in this world.

Sounds very fundie Muslim to me, much like the cloistering of Saudi women.
 
Yes, that is a place where our philosophies diverge dramatically. You seem to prefer the idea of standing before your Maker at the end of your life and sing.... "I DID IT MYYYYYYY WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY!" whereas I prefer to be able to stand there and say "I did it the Right Way." At least in my mind, the response of our Maker to those two concepts will be very different.

Our Lord never ever even implied that we should not be happy. His Messages are all about love and tolerance...New Testament.
 
It seems you would refuse a wife or daughter the opportunities to follow their passions, esp. if they occurred outside the home. For example riding horses or gymnastics or singing.

That would depend on whether they intended to pursue it as a hobby or as a career. If it's a career, it's a non-starter.

Very sad. As you said.....no happiness in this world.

Happiness is not the point of life, which is actually pretty good because it's a fleeting concept, so often just beyond one's grasp.

Sounds very fundie Muslim to me, much like the cloistering of Saudi women.

Yes, it is very Fundamentalist; though neither Muslem, Christian, or any other organized religion. It's based on the most basic ideals and philosophies of human life, going back to the beginning of time.
 
Our Lord never ever even implied that we should not be happy. His Messages are all about love and tolerance...New Testament.

YOUR Lord, not mine. He and I have long since stopped having any form of interaction or conversation. Just a piece of advice.... Don't trust in Him too much. He WON'T be there when you need Him. You can quote me on that the next time you talk to Him.
 
Yes, that is a place where our philosophies diverge dramatically. You seem to prefer the idea of standing before your Maker at the end of your life and sing.... "I DID IT MYYYYYYY WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY!" whereas I prefer to be able to stand there and say "I did it the Right Way." At least in my mind, the response of our Maker to those two concepts will be very different.

My mother and father made me, and they're both dead now.

So I'm not too worried about whatever fairy-god-demon thing you think "made" you.
 
My mother and father made me, and they're both dead now. So I'm not too worried about whatever fairy-god-demon thing you think "made" you.

My condolances on the loss of your parents. My father is no longer with us, so I understand how it feels.

You are free to believe or disbelieve whatever you want.
 
Our current living situation would allow for a child to be added without having to move. We would have to make some sacrifices in terms of entertainment budget and a couple of other things, but all in all we should be able to absorb the one child that we've discussed having without too much trouble. Especially since there would be no need to pay for daycare since she'd be at home all the time. Hell, my parents raised three of us kids on my father's salary which was just about what I make now.

Oh that's right. And if it's a girl, no college or additional education will be needed.
 
YOUR Lord, not mine. He and I have long since stopped having any form of interaction or conversation. Just a piece of advice.... Don't trust in Him too much. He WON'T be there when you need Him. You can quote me on that the next time you talk to Him.

He didnt make any bargains or deals or promises to me....except that if I accept his Son into my heart and ask forgiveness, I will be admitted into His Kingdom.

Not sure what all you think he owes you.
 
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