View Poll Results: We should be raising our daughters

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  • like it's the 1700's - dependent and submissive

    3 3.03%
  • as princesses

    6 6.06%
  • no different than how we raise our sons

    17 17.17%
  • to be independent and strong individuals

    66 66.67%
  • squirrel ......

    7 7.07%
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Thread: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

  1. #381
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    Re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Okay. I see where we are now.

    I think the difference between me and my points and you two and your points is what we're thinking of as 'attraction'

    Attraction (as I'm looking at it) the snag or pull one person feels for another - face to face isn't even needed, it could be written or heard about. It could be anything.

    Attraction as you two are referring to it (with some of your posted points) is mostly physical.

    Two very different types of attraction. Of course women are physically attracted to certain features, physically. Of course we look at men who hold these physical features. And of course men can find non-physical things to be equally attractive. And men also 'settle' for what they can't have (they might want the Stepford Wife but she doesn't exist, etc)

    We don't really seem to be disagreeing on any of this, we just seem to be thinking of 'attraction' for the purpose of this topic in two different ways.

    Thus: I'm referring to the physical interests as 'appeal' or 'something to appreciate' - I'm not lumping that in with 'the attraction that holds a couple together' or even 'the spark that gets a relationship going, even if it plummets'
    Wait, wait, wait...... are you saying that the men you are responding to are more visually oriented while you are more relationally oriented?!?

    YOU SEXIST!!! Gender is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT!

    Last edited by cpwill; 03-24-14 at 11:34 AM.

  2. #382
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    Re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And hence the start of women as doormats, women who stay in abusive situations struggling to be loved...because she's learned it's 'her fault' she's not worthy of love.
    Would women be worse off, if it were socially acceptable to be girls and friends at the same time and simply fornicate us out of any bashfulness or commitment phobia we may have; not only for fun and practice in modern times, but, also to get to know us better.

  3. #383
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    Re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Would women be worse off, if it were socially acceptable to be girls and friends at the same time and simply fornicate us out of any bashfulness or commitment phobia we may have; not only for fun and practice in modern times, but, also to get to know us better.
    I have no idea what this long garbled sentence is asking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #384
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    Re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And men will stay with emotionally and verbally abusive women because they do not feel that they deserve to be respected . We are all losers in the gender war.
    So then does raising boys to be respected work or not? (rhetorical of course but it was your statement and I'm not sure why you just wrote something opposite)

    My point was to not set daughters up from birth to be vulnerable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #385
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    Re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And men will stay with emotionally and verbally abusive women because they do not feel that they deserve to be respected . We are all losers in the gender war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So then does raising boys to be respected work or not? (rhetorical of course but it was your statement and I'm not sure why you just wrote something opposite)

    My point was to not set daughters up from birth to be vulnerable.
    Children should be raised to believe that should both be loved and respected and treat others with that same measure.

    No debate.

    Our society is built on this concept - as many societies have been for centuries. We cleave to things like 'the golden rule' for a reason.

    But like all 'guidelines' - trying to encourage the behavior and belief is one thing, what people actually come to feel due to life experiences is another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And hence the start of women as doormats, women who stay in abusive situations struggling to be loved...because she's learned it's 'her fault' she's not worthy of love.
    Spousal abuse isn't a matter of love or respect. Abuse in a relationship can go in all directions (verbal, physical, emotional). This is a matter of tolerance (tolerate the behavior and it will continue) and it is also a matter of maturity (immature twits beat their wives or berate their husbands). This is why abuse is a cycle.

    However: The modern concept of 'only wanting to be in a perfect marriage' and 'never having arguments or disagreements' is modern passive bull**** and doesn't exist. People are flawed and human.

    Often things that aren't systemic, chronic abuse are classified as such when they shouldn't be. This has led to an abundance of people who are unable to work through differences (because they claim that having problems for a while is 'abuse' and a matter of 'disrespect' or 'not loving me enough' when it's nothing more than having a normal, human issue)

    In an effort to address physical spousal abuse the verbal and emotional abuse (that more often comes from women) is ignored or diminished.
    We've also created a society where physical violence by women against men is treated like it doesn't exist - often putting the man between a rock and a hard place. If he says anything one way or another, if he's hit first and strikes back to protect himself, he'll be seen as the abuser even when he's not.

    Thus: many women stay with men who show abusive behaviors because they're rooted in reality. Reality: men are infallible and imperfect, just like women. Reality: Just because someone resorts to physical violence to express anger on occasion (like they'r encouraged to do from infancy in our pro-angst society) doesn't mean they're so corrupt they can't A) See that they're wrong, B) Stop, C) Seek professional help and change.

    People's criticism of the book 50 Shades of Grey is where this can be seen: If someone has emotional issues and needs psychological help - if he decides to channel his issues physically (even in a strictly controlled environment with limits in place) then the idea of caring and wanting to help him get better equates the woman with being a pathetic, self-disrespecting, imbecilic moron.

    But women getting physical with their spouse? Most people don't care - or even encourage it.

    There's nothing wrong with seeing that someone is going through a difficult time and struggling to cope - and then committing yourself to helping them because you think they're worth it, they actually mean enough as a human being to care about.

    If someone helps the homeless or tries to save slaves and they are injured or die in the process people think they're heroic. But put that type of person into a marriage, make her a female, and have her helping her husband that she loves and then she's seen as a pathetic, self-disrespecting, imbecilic moron who can't think for herself or who is so blind she doesn't see the situation she's in.

    See: in an effort to empower women we've created a society in which every little tiny thing is considered abuse and very few people are willing to admit or accept that there's a difference. Good intentions: but we haven't quite sorted it all out. It's just gone from one extreme *to another*

    Now: it's commonly accepted that if you think you're in an abusive relationship (one fight, one argument, one restrained almost smack) you should respect yourself - leave him, take the kids - and then what? Live in the ****ing slums as a single mother on government assistance.

    What in the hell type of self-respect or sense does that make? Our society is still so off-kilter. We should be supporting people who want to work out their issues, not shoving those women into Secton 8 housing where their kids are more likely to end up being shot in the head by a driveby.

    Sorry - but when I was in that type of 'choose one or the other' situation a long long time ago the last place I wanted to be was in Apartment 2B on Jefferson Street for another MOMENT. The neighborhood was more dangerous.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 03-24-14 at 03:54 PM.
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  6. #386
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    Re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So then does raising boys to be respected work or not? (rhetorical of course but it was your statement and I'm not sure why you just wrote something opposite)

    My point was to not set daughters up from birth to be vulnerable.
    I think you are misreading me then. Men and Women both need both love and respect, but women (generally) need more to feel loved while men (generally ) need more to feel respected. When they poll couples in arguments, for example, women usually feel unloved, while men usually feel disrespected, and each makes both of them angry - making men more likely to act in ways that come across as unloving and women more likely to act in ways that come across as disrespectful. Both men and women need to know that they are worthy independent of their partners, which does not obviate the requirement for the partner to make sure that their spouse feels worthy.

    Does that make more sense?

  7. #387
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    Re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    My point was to not set daughters up from birth to be vulnerable.
    This is an intriguing sentence. I have no idea what you mean, but the sentence sure catches the eye of readers.

  8. #388
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    Re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    This is an intriguing sentence. I have no idea what you mean, but the sentence sure catches the eye of readers.
    A lot of women have come to believe that:

    A) If they're in a tense marital or relationship environment then:
    B) They're not being respected.
    C) (They might think that) Not being respected or in an ideal relationship means they are vulnerable, weak, or do not respect their self.
    D) (They might think that) Wanting to be loved (even though that's the basis of humanity) is not a good enough of a reason to be with someone if that person is not ideal or perfect.
    E) (They might think that) Wanting to be in a relationship, even if it's not ideal, equates them to seeing themselves as unworthy of respect, dependent on the other person, and inferior.

    In truth: a bunch of imperfect women expect more form their partners than they do themselves and 'wanting to be loved' is seen as a bad thing - the equivalent of throwing yourself under the bus.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  9. #389
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    Re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    In truth: a bunch of imperfect women expect more form their partners than they do themselves and 'wanting to be loved' is seen as a bad thing - the equivalent of throwing yourself under the bus.
    So if we take off the feminist propaganda glasses, Oprah transforms into one of the greatest villains in the last half century due to her taking a wrecking ball to women's lives and filling their heads up with nonsense which has been used to destroy millions of lives.

  10. #390
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    Re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    So if we take off the feminist propaganda glasses, Oprah transforms into one of the greatest villains in the last half century due to her taking a wrecking ball to women's lives and filling their heads up with nonsense which has been used to destroy millions of lives.
    Seriously? This is but a guess, but I see you as a sixty to seventy year old man who thinks "Leave it to Beaver" was reality TV. Granted, our culture and Country have changed and adapted to things that have occurred, but isn't that what it was designed to do hundreds of years ago?
    I am an old fogey to my Granddaughter.....but at least she thinks I'm pretty cool....where are you in this reality?

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