View Poll Results: We should be raising our daughters

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  • like it's the 1700's - dependent and submissive

    3 3.03%
  • as princesses

    6 6.06%
  • no different than how we raise our sons

    17 17.17%
  • to be independent and strong individuals

    66 66.67%
  • squirrel ......

    7 7.07%
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Thread: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

  1. #251
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    re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    That's incorrect. I also get to determine the options for the lives of anyone else who relies on me to provide for them. That would include my fiance and any children we eventually have. Of course they're welcome to leave any time they don't like those options, but at that point they become their own problem, not mine.
    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, you want to CONTROL the lives of anyone unlucky enough to have you "providing for them." That's a fate I am so happy to AVOID.

    Women who are thinking of getting married really need to find out EXACTLY what their boyfriend or fiance expects from them long before marriage is even considered. This is done by having long conversations with these guys in the first weeks of dating. That way, women can see what kind of TRAP they might be walking into by marrying such an extremist and run as far AWAY from this guy as possible.

  2. #252
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    re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I look at it this way.... Are we Better or Worse off TODAY than we were prior to the Women's Sufferage Movement gaining traction in the early part of the 20th Century? Technologically we are immensely superior, but socially and societally I would suggest that we are incalculably inferior to the society that existed prior to the Women's Sufferage and then Femistm movements of hte 20th Century.
    I so liked your first post on this thread. I thought to myself, "Who has hijacked Tigger's account??" But if someone did, I see you've wrested it back.

    If the quality of society as a whole depends upon women being kept in their place, not being able to vote, staying in their so-called traditional roles despite their desires, talents and abilities, then somebody's got an unfair lock on defining "quality of society."

    There are many things wrong with our society today. It's not Utopia. But to blame those ills on the Suffrage and Feminist movements -- in other words, to blame women? Is wrong-wrong-wrong. If you want to place blame, put it squarely on the politicians who shape our society. Blame the 80% male make-up of our legislatures for it is they who social engineer our world. (I think 80% is being conservative.)

  3. #253
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    re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean007 View Post
    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, you want to CONTROLthe lives of anyone unlucky enough to have you "providing for them." That's a fate I am so happy to AVOID.
    As are many moder women. Unfortunately that is doing great damage to our society as a whole and both genders specifically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean007 View Post
    Women who are thinking of getting married really need to find out EXACTLY what their boyfriend or fiance expects from them long before marriage is even considered. This is done by having long conversations with these guys in the first weeks of dating. That way, women can see what kind of TRAP they might be walking into by marrying such an extremist and run as far AWAY from this guy as possible.
    On THAT we will most definitely agree. It shouldn't take more than one or two dates to have a very good idea if you could potentially see yourself with the Man or woman you're dating for a long time. That's why I had very few second dates over the years... I was very up-front about what I was looking for in and from a woman and I found few who could even come close to meeting those criteria. Realize that there are some women out there who are looking for just such an extremist. Also realize that you women are being judged at least as much as we Men are. Hell, I've had times where I've walked out in the middle of the first date, or in one case never even went inside the restaurant (I saw her get out of her car and from the bumper stickers on it knew we had nothing in common so I called her and told her I wasn't coming).

  4. #254
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    re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If the quality of society as a whole depends upon women being kept in their place, not being able to vote, staying in their so-called traditional roles despite their desires, talents and abilities, then somebody's got an unfair lock on defining "quality of society."
    The quality of a society depends on both Men and women being kept in their place, Maggie. That's what I don't think many of you are understanding. I'm not just suggesting there is a proper role for women. There's also a proper role for MEN. It's a different role, but it is just as cast in stone and in some ways is just as limiting as a woman's role.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    There are many things wrong with our society today. It's not Utopia. But to blame those ills on the Suffrage and Feminist movements -- in other words, to blame women? Is wrong-wrong-wrong. If you want to place blame, put it squarely on the politicians who shape our society. Blame the 80% male make-up of our legislatures for it is they who social engineer our world. (I think 80% is being conservative.)
    I agree that the blame should be widely spread. What I do suggest the Sufferage and Feminist movements did was to start that rock slide. They aren't the only stones headed down the hillside, but they were among the first. The politicians, while an obvious and very public symptom, are not the problem itself. The problem is a society which no longer has any social or moral standards. We have removed Right and Wrong from the social and societal equations and now live in the great grey quagmire that is moral ambiguity.When you do not have solid rules and social norms, which are enforced across the board you find yourself in a situation where anything goes, and society breaks down with it. We could replace every politician in the country TOMORROW and it wouldn't make a single difference until we change the society and individuals they rule over.

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    re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I so liked your first post on this thread. I thought to myself, "Who has hijacked Tigger's account??" But if someone did, I see you've wrested it back.
    I wanted to reply to this separately....

    Nobody hijacked my account. I truly believe what was said in that post. The woman is the foundation of the relationship. She is the glue that holds a family together. You had to know what I meant by that entire post, Maggie. You are more than smart enough to understand that I was not suggesting that women were ever intended to be the Leaders of the family, or to really be part of society separately and independently from that family.

  6. #256
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    re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    The quality of a society depends on both Men and women being kept in their place, Maggie. That's what I don't think many of you are understanding. I'm not just suggesting there is a proper role for women. There's also a proper role for MEN. It's a different role, but it is just as cast in stone and in some ways is just as limiting as a woman's role.

    I agree that the blame should be widely spread. What I do suggest the Sufferage and Feminist movements did was to start that rock slide. They aren't the only stones headed down the hillside, but they were among the first. The politicians, while an obvious and very public symptom, are not the problem itself. The problem is a society which no longer has any social or moral standards. We have removed Right and Wrong from the social and societal equations and now live in the great grey quagmire that is moral ambiguity.When you do not have solid rules and social norms, which are enforced across the board you find yourself in a situation where anything goes, and society breaks down with it. We could replace every politician in the country TOMORROW and it wouldn't make a single difference until we change the society and individuals they rule over.
    If every man were a strong family leader and teacher, put his family first and had a good work ethic, our society would be very different. But the majority of men do not. Never did. It is the human condition.

    Where you would choose to raise your daughters to be compliant wives and mothers, most of the rest of us choose to raise ours to be strong and independent wives and mothers. To have choices. Just as a man should be raised to be more than just a husband and father. Women have been used since the beginning of time. Our biological urge to nest has forever been used against us by the exploitive men in our lives.

    If you want women to be different, change men.

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    re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If you want women to be different, change men.
    You cannot change either gender independently of the other. They both have to be changed at the same time. In other words SOCIETY as a whole needs to be changed. That's not going to be easy. Many women will fight tooth and nail against going back to a more Traditional role in life. Many males will fight equally hard to avoid having to take responsibility for their choices in life and actually deal with what it takes to be a Man. At this point, fixing the issues may not even be possible without massive social unrest.

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    re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    You cannot change either gender independently of the other. They both have to be changed at the same time. In other words SOCIETY as a whole needs to be changed. That's not going to be easy. Many women will fight tooth and nail against going back to a more Traditional role in life. Many males will fight equally hard to avoid having to take responsibility for their choices in life and actually deal with what it takes to be a Man. At this point, fixing the issues may not even be possible without massive social unrest.
    You're right. I see what I assume to be good young men on this site who would no more be comfortable with their wives staying home in a more traditional role than the man in the moon. She's gotta' pull her weight. There was a thread that showed that just recently. If men just realized how much easier their own lives would be if they had a stay-at-home wife and mother. But it's all down to bringing money into the household.

    Our economy is based on ever-increasing consumption. There's method to the madness. But it's still madness.

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    re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You're right. I see what I assume to be good young men on this site who would no more be comfortable with their wives staying home in a more traditional role than the man in the moon. She's gotta' pull her weight. There was a thread that showed that just recently. If men just realized how much easier their own lives would be if they had a stay-at-home wife and mother. But it's all down to bringing money into the household.

    Our economy is based on ever-increasing consumption. There's method to the madness. But it's still madness.
    Single income families are a relic of the past.
    Very few jobs pay adequately enough for such a "luxury".

    That's to say nothing of women who actually have dreams, goals, and ambitions to have a professional career.

    While some ladies might chose to stay home during child rearing years, the vast majority I'd assume would prefer to do something constructive, productive, creative, and meaningful outside of the home.

    And more power to them I say.

    Any person, regardless of gender, should have the opportunity to chase dreams, desires, goals, and ambitions.

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    re: How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You're right. I see what I assume to be good young men on this site who would no more be comfortable with their wives staying home in a more traditional role than the man in the moon. She's gotta' pull her weight. There was a thread that showed that just recently. If men just realized how much easier their own lives would be if they had a stay-at-home wife and mother. But it's all down to bringing money into the household.
    Thank you for seeing exactly what I was talking about. IF both genders just took a moment to step back and try to take a look at our society today compared to what it was in the 1950's and early 1960's (not all that long ago) and honestly asked ourselves what has changed, I think that even most of our current high school graduates could see where the most obvious difference lays..... in the family, social, and societal concepts of the day. Men's and women's lives would both be much easier, and society as a whole would improve dramatically if we just moved back towards that more traditional, family based society. You are right though, it's all about wealth.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Our economy is based on ever-increasing consumption. There's method to the madness. But it's still madness.
    You're absolutely right. It is madness. Why do we need a 42" HD Plasma 3D television set in EVERY ROOM of the house? Why do we need brand new cars every 3-4 years? Why does the stay-at-home-parent need a brand new car, period? We have created the means to our own destruction by trying to buy ourselves happiness. It doesn't work. The two-income family was driven by the desire to have THINGS. Personally, I'd prefer to have a 6-7 year old car, one television set, no video game system, and a bunch of clothes that I'm comfortable in and have been for a year or two than to have my fiance working. ESPECIALLY if we ever have children.

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