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Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

Men: Would you marry an American Woman?


  • Total voters
    83
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Unfruitful sexual activity is no different than not having sex at all. Your argument fails.

The simple fact of the matter is that virtually all "modern" industrialized nations are having problems relating to low birth rates, low marriage rates, and crumbling gender relations. That is the "failure" to which I alluded, not anything specifically having to do with sex.

Japan simply happens to be the most extreme case. It is not, however; necessarily inconceivable that the same could happen here.

Again, pay attention and focus!

You claimed that modern societies are failing in the same way as Japan is.

Most "modern" societies are failing in the same way Japan is.

Japan has a lot of young adults who despise sex. Please name the modern societies where the young adults despise sex.

Japan has a lot of young adults who are sexually inactive. Please name the modern societies where the young adults are sexually inactive.


Who says I'm not adhering to them? The simple fact of the matter is that I'm broke and have nothing to offer at the time being. Women would be wise to avoid me, and I them until my circumstances improve.

So you're poor?

Someone once told me that poor people have been marrying other poor people for ages. You are obviously not adhering to that tradition.


Most Japanese men are not in my situation, but women are refusing to enter into relationships with them anyway; preferring to remain single to having to deal with the "hassle" of a man unless he happens to be wealthy in a manner which greatly exceeds the national average.

Actually, as the article I linked to shows, most Japanese men are in a situation similar to yours - they do not make enough to support a family.

And you are refusing to enter into a marital relationship with women, preferring to remain single to having to deal with the "hassle" of a woman unless she meets some unspoken qualifications which are obviously unrealistic given your situation.

But it's OK when you do it.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Because Japan, as you admit, is an extreme case. But then, it's you have been arguing that it's selfishness driving the marriage and birth rate down. It turns out that their decisions have harsh economic realities driving their choices.

Again, not really, as most of the rest of the world suffers from many of the same problems as Japan, regardless of the economic factors at play.

This is simply the result modern notions of "gender roles" seem to bring about. More women avoiding relationships, marriage, and procreation in favor of other pursuits, and more men losing their own place in society and falling into something of a "perpetual adolescence" as they don't see the point in trying to better themselves.

Japan simply happens to be the most extreme case.

Yes, the U.S. has economic pressure, but not to the degree the Japanese do nor the cultural pressures they live under which make it considerably less likely single people here will give up sex.

They're already giving up marriage and family. Whether they give up sex as well is ultimately incidental.

I was simply pointing out that the same general trends exist in both cultures.

You mean a specific segment of the population are not having children at replacement level. The wealthy and middle class.

Yes, the productive portion that keeps the rest of the system afloat.

We are back to my original reply to you:

What is wrong with them putting other priorities first? Men do this. Why is it that women automatically need to sacrifice their lives to be brood mares? Some women don't have a maternal instinct. God bless them for knowing themselves enough not to put kids through the agony of being raised by a mother who didn't really want them.

It is what it is. :shrug:

However, we can observe from simply looking at the culture we inhabit that it tends to bring about certain, very negative, impacts. It leads men to become socially aimless and unmotivated, and it leads to declining birthrates which jeopardize the sustainability of society as a whole.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

And? How does this differ significantly from the rest of the industrialized world?

I am glad to see that you have finally acknowledged that the problem is economic and not being caused by a culture discarding traditional gender roles. :lol:

Or have you?
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I dunno. Isn't basing a causation assumption on a single chart rather risky? Risky in the sense that it's not likely to be correct?

There could be a bunch of different reasons, other than marriage, for employment rates for unmarried women to fall. I'd think that more information would be needed to make that leap.

No one has based causation on a single chart. Instead, Gath has claimed that the low marriage rates in japan is caused by women who value their careers over marriage and done so without showing *any* facts to support the claim.

The chart shows a lowered participation rate in the workforce by women. One would think that if more women today considered a career more important than they used to, then that would result in an increase in the participation rate for them and not a decrease.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I have seen absolutely no evidence to support this conclusion other than your own assertions. Basically every other source which has been presented on the subject (which include actual testimony from young Japanese people themselves, no less) says that the major problem is that they do not want to be burdened with the expectations of traditional marriage in the first place.

They view it as being too "troublesome" to work, and would rather go it alone.

I have posted extensive evidence so if you haven't seen it, it is because you have once again ignored it.

And you have posted no evidence to support your claim that the japanese do not want to be burdened with the expectations of traditional marriage. I have posted evidence that they want a traditional marriage (90% want it) but that their economic situation makes those traditional values unrealistic.

Even you have described the Japanese women who want to marry a man who can be the sole provider as having "unrealistic expectations"
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I have posted extensive evidence so if you haven't seen it, it is because you have once again ignored it.

And you have posted no evidence to support your claim that the japanese do not want to be burdened with the expectations of traditional marriage. I have posted evidence that they want a traditional marriage (90% want it) but that their economic situation makes those traditional values unrealistic.

Even you have described the Japanese women who want to marry a man who can be the sole provider as having "unrealistic expectations"

If anyone doesnt want to be burdened with the traditional expectations of marriage and provider, I've only read of the extreme conditions the men are going to, or ending up in. By choice tho. The ones that live in their bedrooms of their parents' homes and never leave and spend all their time on the Internet...totally homebound, no jobs, unable to (implied) deal with the very real and strict pressures of the Japanese business world. And they have a very high suicide rate too.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I'm not going to deny that culture plays a role here.

However, the principles at play are ultimately the same either way regardless. Women in industrialized societies where ideas like "feminism" and wide spread materialism have taken hold, simply do not seem to have much of an interest in marriage, family, or childrearing.

There is no disputing this. You are correct. Family sizes have been decreasing over time. It is generally the wife, rather than the husband, who determines the number of children the couple are going to have. The rise of childless couples is also increasing across the industrialized world.

This is true across the board, even in societies where the significance of the economic factors at play have been reduced due to government policy.

Right. The all-embracing social welfare states of Northern Europe have very friendly family policies and income equalization polices also have seen reductions in family size and marriage.

That alone doesn't account for the problems Japan is experiencing. Women often pass up on men who actually are making enough money to potentially support a family, simply because they don't view the amount he makes as being "desirable enough" to support the lifestyle they desire, or because they would rather maintain the career they already possess.

I think that this might be where you guys are crossing wires. Sangha is pointing to women's desires to form families. You're pointing to their unwillingness. Their desires are dependent on certain conditions being met with regards to male earnings. Their unwillingness to form a family speaks to a set of standards which are not being modified due to societal changes. These women COULD modify their expectations, to accept downward mobility in exchange for a family life, but they CHOOSE not to.

Women are basically doing exactly what you described with regard polygamous societies. They are passing up everyone else in favor of the most desirable males available.

Or in the case of Japan, they're bypassing men in favor of an ideal which is slipping out of reach. This is female hypergamy. It's as intrinsic to women as male attraction to female youth & beauty is to men. When unleashed it destablizes society. Society has tried to leash male sexuality and channel it towards monogamy and support of family and that brings about a more stable society but the cost to men, especially the men most desirable to women, is significant. Female solipsism leads to objections regarding the curtailment of female liberty while expecting male liberty to be suppressed for the benefit of the women who do favor a marriage model. These restrictions on liberty are interlinked and they tend to produce more stable societies than when the restrictions are lifted.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Btw, do you know what a psychologist does? Somehow I doubt it. Go ahead and google it though, since you have already exposed your ignorance once again.

Are you saying that she didnt do any interviewing in all these examples? Really? :lamo

"Helen Smith, PhD, is a psychologist specializing in forensic issues and men’s issues in Knoxville, Tennessee. She holds a PhD from the University of Tennessee and master’s degrees from The New School for Social Research and the City University of New York. She has written The Scarred Heart: Understanding and Identifying Kids Who Kill and was writer and executive producer of Six, a documentary about the murder of a family in Tennessee by teens from Kentucky. She has worked with men (as well as women and children) in her private practice for more than twenty years. She has been on numerous television and radio shows including Montel Williams and has appeared on E! Entertainment, Fox News, Discovery, Women’s Entertainment, Biography, Oxygen and The Learning Channel. Smith has written for numerous publications including the Los Angeles Times, The Christian Science Monitor and The Cleveland Plain Dealer. She occasionally hosts a show at PJTV focusing on men’s issues, psychology and politics. She has written on her blog at drhelen.blogspot.com since 2005 on men’s rights, men’s issues and psychology and is now a columnist and blogger at PJ Media."
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I'm not going to deny that culture plays a role here.

However, the principles at play are ultimately the same either way regardless. Women in industrialized societies where ideas like "feminism" and wide spread materialism have taken hold, simply do not seem to have much of an interest in marriage, family, or childrearing.

This is true across the board, even in societies where the significance of the economic factors at play have been reduced due to government policy.

No, it is not true in Japan. As I have proven, single Japanese have a lot of interest in marriage and creating a family. And contrary to your claims about how feminism is at fault, in Japan the problem is that married women are expected to not work, making it difficult if not impossible for young people to have a two-income family. The one income family is unrealistic (because most Japanese men do not make enough) and the two income family is unrealistic (because the Japanese look down on married women who work, so they don't hire married women).

It's not feminism that causes the Japanese to look down on married women who work. It's traditional values.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

If anyone doesnt want to be burdened with the traditional expectations of marriage and provider, I've only read of the extreme conditions the men are going to, or ending up in. By choice tho. The ones that live in their bedrooms of their parents' homes and never leave and spend all their time on the Internet...totally homebound, no jobs, unable to (implied) deal with the very real and strict pressures of the Japanese business world. And they have a very high suicide rate too.

You are referring to "shut-ins" and while their # is increasing, they are still such a small portion of the population to have any significant effect on the birth rates.

What we're discussing here is a Japanese phenomena knows as "parasite singles" - young adults who are single and still live at home. They are not shut-ins. They go out. They have social lives. They just don't have homes of their own, wives, children or sex.

And there are a lot of them.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I'm glad that you don't see much of that around you. Sadly, however, the growth of loser men fulfilling low expectations and therefore seeming to be unsuitable matches for high-achieving women is a real trend in our society today. No one (generally) sets out to copy entertainment, but the value systems and social assumptions that we surround ourselves with and ingest shape our behavior.

Do you think it's an age or maturity thing tho? I see lots of younger couples...and I wouldnt want to be one today, lol. But I think everyone matures..in society and in relationships, even tho they dont necessarily survive (the relationships)...and dont remain the same. (Of course some people never grow up true). Dont younger under-achievers and rebels often eventually end up becoming part of the Establishment whether they like it or not?
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

You are referring to "shut-ins" and while their # is increasing, they are still such a small portion of the population to have any significant effect on the birth rates.

What we're discussing here is a Japanese phenomena knows as "parasite singles" - young adults who are single and still live at home. They are not shut-ins. They go out. They have social lives. They just don't have homes of their own, wives, children or sex.

And there are a lot of them.


Ah....is this not a parental issue then? I'm sure it's more complex...it was in the articles I just read here...but hey...who's enabling them?
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

That's a whole lot closer to what I've been saying than what Gath has been arguing.

Gath believes that the problem is, at it's root, caused by various societies abandoning their traditional values. However, the problem in Japan is the exact opposite of that. People aren't remaining single because they value their career over family. They are remaining single because they are stubbornly clinging to the traditional value that the man should be the provider even though their economy no longer makes that possible.

In addition, the problem is exacerbated because their employers continue to adhere to the traditional value of undervaluing the women workers, particularly if they are married. This makes becoming a two-income family nearly impossible as a practical matter. In addition, there's the cultural reality that there is a social stigma attached to married women who work.

As a result, the majority can not marry and depend solely on the man's income, nor can they marry and depend on them both having an adequate income. It's a Catch-22 situation caused by their clinging to traditional values. In order to change, they need to change. They must accept that married women won't and can not be nothing more than homemakers and that a two-income family model is acceptable.

I feel like a damn marriage counselor here.

What I see Gath arguing is that women's choices in Japan are moderated by a vision of an economic lifestyle. To get married to a man who can't provide that lifestyle would entail a step down, either in terms of their ideal or an actual step-down in their current lifestyle if the man is the only breadwinner. The women COULD have the married lifestyle they claim to want but it would come at an unacceptable cost in terms of income/wealth.

Women being the gatekeepers in the sexual market place, in Japan they're not willing to downgrade and instead find more satisfaction in a single life or in chasing for their ideal.

You're right in regards to married women working would be a way to square the circle, giving them a married life but also addressing the economic issue. The problem here is that, as we saw in the West, this is not a static model. The entry of women into the workforce has depressed male wages in the US and it'll do the same in Japan, thus fueling a feedback loop. Women who want to remain as housewives are dependent on their husband's incomes. As more women enter the workforce that puts downward pressure on male incomes, thus leading the households on the margin to send the wife out to work, which puts even more downward pressure on male income, thus moving the margin ever inward. That's the thing with feedback loops, when they start then buckle up, everyone is in for a wild ride.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Been thinking on this.


IF I was going to remarry (improbable, but miracles happen), I would almost definitely marry an American woman.


I've known a lot of people who married otherwise who said they had severe, even marriage-ending problems with culture clash. Marriage is hard enough as it is; adding that two people come from drastically different cultures with different norms, customs, expectations, requirements, manners, and reactions to common things, probably won't really help anything.

Not to mention most of those brides-from-poor-countries will apparently scam you right out of your home and bank account in many cases. Hell I had a buddy married for 20-some years, when he tried to curtail his Asian wife's spending habits she cleaned him out and disappeared.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Are you saying that she didnt do any interviewing in all these examples? Really? :lamo

"Helen Smith, PhD, is a psychologist specializing in forensic issues and men’s issues in Knoxville, Tennessee. She holds a PhD from the University of Tennessee and master’s degrees from The New School for Social Research and the City University of New York. She has written The Scarred Heart: Understanding and Identifying Kids Who Kill and was writer and executive producer of Six, a documentary about the murder of a family in Tennessee by teens from Kentucky. She has worked with men (as well as women and children) in her private practice for more than twenty years. She has been on numerous television and radio shows including Montel Williams and has appeared on E! Entertainment, Fox News, Discovery, Women’s Entertainment, Biography, Oxygen and The Learning Channel. Smith has written for numerous publications including the Los Angeles Times, The Christian Science Monitor and The Cleveland Plain Dealer. She occasionally hosts a show at PJTV focusing on men’s issues, psychology and politics. She has written on her blog at drhelen.blogspot.com since 2005 on men’s rights, men’s issues and psychology and is now a columnist and blogger at PJ Media."

Did you seriously just quote the Amazon page to use against me? lol. Why don't you buy the book, read it, and come back to talk. Until then, I have nothing left to say to you.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Ah....is this not a parental issue then? I'm sure it's more complex...it was in the articles I just read here...but hey...who's enabling them?

It's more complex.

The shut-ins suffer from an extreme form of social anxiety and the symptoms usually begin in adolescence or even in childhood. In addition, the Japanese do not encourage gregariousness (though they do encourage politeness and consideration) and do value their shy children



The "parasite singles" are a different matter. In Japan, there is no shame in living with your parents until the day you get married. In fact, it's expected. So yeah, there is a "parental" aspect to it, but it's something I see as more of a cultural matter than a parenting issue.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Again, not really, as most of the rest of the world suffers from many of the same problems as Japan, regardless of the economic factors at play.

This is simply the result modern notions of "gender roles" seem to bring about. More women avoiding relationships, marriage, and procreation in favor of other pursuits, and more men losing their own place in society and falling into something of a "perpetual adolescence" as they don't see the point in trying to better themselves.

Japan simply happens to be the most extreme case.
Then we can dispense Japan as a discussion point.



They're already giving up marriage and family. Whether they give up sex as well is ultimately incidental
.

That was your point. They would give up human intimacy. Again, that was in relation to the Japanese, so we can dispense with this point too.

I was simply pointing out that the same general trends exist in both cultures.

General, but there is no point on lamenting the end of human procreation because selfish women choose careers over having a family. That isn't even the case in Japan, as Sangha has said more than once.

Yes, the productive portion that keeps the rest of the system afloat.

That is a different problem than a population dying out because traditional gender roles are not being observed, in general.



It is what it is. :shrug:

However, we can observe from simply looking at the culture we inhabit that it tends to bring about certain, very negative, impacts. It leads men to become socially aimless and unmotivated, and it leads to declining birthrates which jeopardize the sustainability of society as a whole.

Women not committing their lives to make babies, does not lead men to become socially aimless and unmotivated. Where is that observable?

What's observable is that women are damned if they do or don't. Some men complain about the blood sucking women who are out to get married to the richest guy. When women adjust to make ourselves self-sufficient, we are letting down society by not making enough babies. You guys need to make up your minds. Or possibly you have and the only acceptable role for a woman is to take the first dude that crosses our path and start popping out babies and servitude to that man?

What is an acceptable role for women? Describe your perfect woman and your best hope for the nation, as it relates to the position women should occupy in the U.S.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

The point here is to rebut your position that simply paying for school taxes means that they've paid their way. Making a contribution doesn't equal paying your way. A child with a paper route contributes to the family's finances but that doesn't mean that he's not still a financial cost for the family.

I pay for those services, like public schools, every day of my entire working life...which has been since about age 16. And I'm not impressed with much of what I've paid for.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I feel like a damn marriage counselor here.

What I see Gath arguing is that women's choices in Japan are moderated by a vision of an economic lifestyle. To get married to a man who can't provide that lifestyle would entail a step down, either in terms of their ideal or an actual step-down in their current lifestyle if the man is the only breadwinner. The women COULD have the married lifestyle they claim to want but it would come at an unacceptable cost in terms of income/wealth.

I think that because I have been involved in several discussion about this issue with him, I have a little more insight into his position.

The argument is not merely "Is this being caused by cultural factors or economic factors, or both?" We agree that it's both but we disagree over what the specific factors are. Gath thinks it's caused by feminism which enables women to make more money and encourages them to abandon their traditional values and prefer careers over marriage. My position is that, in Japan, the problem is that men don't make as much money and women are unwilling to abandon the traditional value of marrying a man that makes enough to support a family.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

No one has based causation on a single chart. Instead, Gath has claimed that the low marriage rates in japan is caused by women who value their careers over marriage and done so without showing *any* facts to support the claim.

The chart shows a lowered participation rate in the workforce by women. One would think that if more women today considered a career more important than they used to, then that would result in an increase in the participation rate for them and not a decrease.

OK. Fair enough.

Are we sure that the chart is for Japanese women? Or is this study on US women?

I wonder if the present conditions in Japan, i.e. recovering from the Tsunami (if Japanese women), and the recession, wouldn't have some sort of impact on that as well. Seems that there are far too many variables here might have something to do with this trending.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I pay for those services, like public schools, every day of my entire working life...which has been since about age 16. And I'm not impressed with much of what I've paid for.

First off, the rationale for public schooling is that it improves society, not that the taxes are some indirect way of paying for your own children's schooling.

Secondly, we certainly do pay through the nose for schooling, but with confounding factors controlled, our students are near the very top in comparison to other Western nations.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

OK. Fair enough.

Are we sure that the chart is for Japanese women? Or is this study on US women?

Here's the link. Decide for yourself

Japan


I wonder if the present conditions in Japan, i.e. recovering from the Tsunami (if Japanese women), and the recession, wouldn't have some sort of impact on that as well. Seems that there are far too many variables here might have something to do with this trending.

Possibly, but my understanding is that this is not a new phenemona. It predates the Tsunami. I believe it began after the Japanese recession in the 80's and 90's and the move away from the "lifetime employment" model.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Pay attention and focus!

The comment you are responding to was in response to your claim that the Japanese despise sex and that we are heading in the same direction.

Then that was your mistake, not mine. That was never the major focus of my argument here.

Again pay attention and focus!!

You argued that we are headed in the same direction as Japan, where the young adults despise sex.

No, I did not. I claimed that many of the same trends were present, and that we might eventually wind up with a society where most people avoid relationships.

This could conceivably result in more people becoming disenchanted with sex as well as virtual alternatives become more widely available, but that is not a given.

I pointed out that tradition does not support people marrying mates that were unsuitable because they were not capable of fulfilling their traditional role (as a provider).

Their standards for what qualifies as being "suitable" are clearly unrealistic. That is a personal choice on their own part, not a necessity.

You responded that poor people have been marrying other poor people for ages. If the Japanese are not poor, then why did you mention how poor people have a tradition of marrying other poor people?

To point out that marriage is not necessarily dependent upon income. Refusing to consider marrying someone who could conceivably provide for you, simply because they are not able to provide in the way that you might ideally desire, is a matter of choice, not necessity.

It shows that the women you claim are unwilling to give up their careers in order to get married do not even have careers. If a career was becoming more and more important to Japanese women then their participation in the workforce would be increasing, not decreasing.

And if marriage is really as important to them as you claim, they should be gladly rushing into the arms of men to make up for their financial woes.

Why aren't they?

Again, pay attention and focus!

You claimed that modern societies are failing in the same way as Japan is.

Yes, as far as crumbling gender relations and plummeting birth and marriage rates.

Sex is a point that you chose to emphasize.

Actually, as the article I linked to shows, most Japanese men are in a situation similar to yours - they do not make enough to support a family.

According to what standard?

a01002en_fig021.jpg

According to your own source, more than half of them make 2 to 6 million yen a year. Women simply tend to favor men on the higher end of the spectrum, which is why they remain single.

How much does it cost to raise a family in Japan?

I am glad to see that you have finally acknowledged that the problem is economic and not being caused by a culture discarding traditional gender roles. :lol:

Or have you?

If it was purely "economic," it wouldn't be virtually universal to industrialized post-feminist societies. :roll:

The old model is still workable. People simply have to be willing to make it work. Many simply are not.

I have posted extensive evidence so if you haven't seen it, it is because you have once again ignored it.

And you have posted no evidence to support your claim that the japanese do not want to be burdened with the expectations of traditional marriage. I have posted evidence that they want a traditional marriage (90% want it) but that their economic situation makes those traditional values unrealistic.

Even you have described the Japanese women who want to marry a man who can be the sole provider as having "unrealistic expectations"

Here’s Why Nearly Half of Japanese Women Under 24 Aren’t Interested in Sex

In Japan, men and women are declaring, “Mendokusai!”—”It’s too troublesome!”—about relationships, reports the Guardian. Women are avoiding relationships of any kind, because there’s no support for them to skip getting married or to balance a family with a career. Men, on the other hand, are feeling pressure to fit into a model of the perfect breadwinner. The local media has its own name for these choices, according to the Guardian: “celibacy syndrome.”

...

These problems have come to a head over the past couple decades. Women are increasingly earning college degrees and pursuing careers, but the country’s policies and company cultures have not kept up. Few employees provide adequate maternity leave or daycare. Women in some companies say it’s impossible to earn a promotion after getting married because bosses assume the woman will soon get pregnant and quit the job.

...

Some women and men told the Guardian that they steer away from sex in order to avoid developing long-term feelings that may lead to a serious relationship

People can say whatever they want on a survey. Again, many unmarried childless women in their mid thirties to early forties here in the United States claim the same thing about "wanting" to be mothers and wives.

The simple fact of the matter is that their actions speak otherwise. If they wanted to be married, they would be. If it was a priority in their life, they would make it happen.

It clearly is not.

What? Where did you discuss technology with me?

I mentioned internet pornography earlier.
 
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Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

No, it is not true in Japan. As I have proven, single Japanese have a lot of interest in marriage and creating a family. And contrary to your claims about how feminism is at fault, in Japan the problem is that married women are expected to not work, making it difficult if not impossible for young people to have a two-income family. The one income family is unrealistic (because most Japanese men do not make enough) and the two income family is unrealistic (because the Japanese look down on married women who work, so they don't hire married women).

It's not feminism that causes the Japanese to look down on married women who work. It's traditional values.

The whole resentment of 'materialism' keeps showing up in his posts on this subject and it makes some sense now since he just admitted he was broke.

One does need to use less myopic judgement on social trends for an accurate view.

Kinda rude to keep dissing people, esp. women, who want to have 'more' in life if that's what they want, instead of keeping house and raising kids, as 'materialistic.' I'm certainly not judging poverty (but I'm not claiming it's any high road either).
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

First off, the rationale for public schooling is that it improves society, not that the taxes are some indirect way of paying for your own children's schooling.

Secondly, we certainly do pay through the nose for schooling, but with confounding factors controlled, our students are near the very top in comparison to other Western nations.

I'm very aware of the first.

I am not aware at all that the second is true.
 
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