• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

Men: Would you marry an American Woman?


  • Total voters
    83
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

It's just that I'm only compatible with a person who, in all likelihood, does not exist. The biggest deal breakers I have encountered is that I am uncompromising in not wanting children, and that I'm bat**** crazy. I'm guessing it's mostly the fact that I'm bat**** crazy.

That's one of the nice things about being my age- there is no question of new kids entering the picture. :lol:
That is one of the issues that my son is dealing with, though. He was divorced a few years ago (not by his own choice, but because she thought the grass was greener), and he really struggled to find it within himself to trust women again. He did manage to come across a young woman who is a great match for him- she's intelligent, funny, warm, and beautiful, and she can hold her own against him. He didn't really want any more children, but she is in her late 20's, and her ovaries are apparently calling, so he will compromise on that issue because he loves her, and he understands that in some women the instinct to be a mother is strong, and she will likely be excellent at it.

I figure that most of us have our idiosyncrasies that can make us hard to live with, or turn people off for the most part. For myself, it's probably my tendency to say whatever I think, rather than what always sounds appropriate and mild-mannered. A good many men don't seem to want to deal with frankness. It turns them off.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Those are jokes, not real attitudes.

I understand they are jokes and are designed to make people laugh and tune in. The point is that it is safer to laugh at men than women because men will not get offended as easily. I certainly don't mind jokes about men because I'm quite comfortable being a man and wouldn't want it any other way.

It is women who usually complain about their 'image' through the media whereas men are generally secure and don't really care about that. This is an observation I'm making and not a complaint. Perhaps your attitude might change if the butt was usually women, or you might want to watch more closely..
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Yes, the days of fat, rude slobs who make decent money always being able to find a woman are quickly fading...and a good thing for society too.

Ummm... No, they're not. :lol:

Those kinds of men are making out like bandits like they always have. The ones who are getting shafted here, by and large, are young men who are either more average in terms of success, or who have not had the opportunity to professionally establish themselves.

What our society is currently witnessing is basically the first steps towards something like what's going on in Japan right now. Men and women are gradually drifting apart, and society is suffering for it.
 
Last edited:
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

That's the perception, that treating women equally is equal to disrespecting men. Which is just not true, which is why the OP's premise is faulty.

I honestly don't understand this perception. Men don't even treat other men equally, much less women, because we aren't all equal. Respect is different.

Some examples might help.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Well, now take that and match it to all the television couples you see. As a culture, we do not encourage men to be men anymore, but instead seem to celebrate models of marriages in which "strong independent women" do, in fact, often dominate their husbands, or are constantly wiser than their husbands, etc. so on and so forth. If the old model was Leave It To Beaver, the new model is The Simpsons.

I dont know. I guess there are caricatures out here in real life but I dont associate with them. I have one foot solidly in the liberal high tech world professionally and one foot solidly in a the rural western lifestyle. Two opposites and in neither do I see any men *with brains* being minimized or not being 'men.' They are pretty different but they are 'men' and respected and in healthy...and not-so-healthy...relationships all the same. I dont hang out with alot of twenty-somethings but the people I do hang out with see TV and movies as just that...fiction. And they do not attempt to emulate that, they see it for the (mostly crappy) entertainment it is. And they dont teach their kids that either.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

We're just finally waking up to the truth that women are like DVDs - cheaper to rent than to buy.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

We're just finally waking up to the truth that women are like DVDs - cheaper to rent than to buy.

Shotgun weddings are fairly uncommon these days...I dont know why men are getting married then. No one's making them.

But I think one point of the OP is that there are no good (American) women out there to marry...so men want to marry, just not...<fill in the blank>.

Apparently because women with the same opportunties and choices as men make some men feel less like men.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Yup, being raped and bred to death and sold like livestock sounds great. :roll:

Cherry picking from history, are you?

Although most men didn't get a great deal either. Patriarchy also helps justify treating non-wealthy men as essentially cannon fodder.

Most men did benefit from patriarchy, no matter your socialist agenda towards wealthy men. Men got to have good paying jobs, kept their families intact, and didn't have to worry about their women becoming self-entitled to every asset and luxury they never worked a day in their lives for. As is the case with today's modern woman.

The only people who truly benefitted from patriarchy are wealthy men,

You're beating a dead horse about wealthy men and it shows your complete denial of history.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

But I think one point of the OP is that there are no good (American) women out there to marry...so men want to marry, just not...<fill in the blank>.

Apparently because women with the same opportunties and choices as men make some men feel less like men.

I would suggest there are very few decent American women left out there to marry. It took me almost 25 years of searching to find one myself, and I ended up finding a wonderful hispanic woman. I hadn't found a caucasian woman who was even an option in the last 10-12 years. Some of us have certain expectations about what a wife is supposed to be and we're just not willing to compromise on those ideals.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Shotgun weddings are fairly uncommon these days...I dont know why men are getting married then. No one's making them.

But I think one point of the OP is that there are no good (American) women out there to marry...so men want to marry, just not...<fill in the blank>.

Apparently because women with the same opportunties and choices as men make some men feel less like men.

Frankly, I have no idea why some men want to marry either. It's a losing proposition for most men - minus the ones who found a sugar mama. It's even worse if children are involved. If I was a divorce lawyer, I would advise every man out there to not have children with a woman unless they were proof-positive that they were going to stay married forever (or at least be as sure as sure can be). If you ever get divorced, especially when children are involved, you're essentially screwed in every way possible.

Now I'm sure that not all women are like that, but unless you have a hell of a good reason to believe that you've found an exception and not a rule, you're essentially playing a game of Russian roulette with your life by treating her as more than a device to get your dick wet.
 
Last edited:
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Shotgun weddings are fairly uncommon these days...I dont know why men are getting married then. No one's making them.

But I think one point of the OP is that there are no good (American) women out there to marry...so men want to marry, just not...<fill in the blank>.

Apparently because women with the same opportunties and choices as men make some men feel less like men.

I don't think the bolded is it at all. I think that men want someone who not only loves them, but likes them as well, and is willing to work at having a relationship, rather than running out the door at the first sign of trouble. My experience and observation over the past 35-40 years is that women are usually the party in a marriage that doesn't have what it takes to make it last. They give up easily, and they don't want to accept men as they are, but they do expect men to accept them as they are. It's very mixed signals.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I guess that my perception of your post was correct then.

Good for you.

I never said 'two wrongs make a right."

Yet you stated it was "learning by example." Lets not play semantics here.

You even quoted where I said it's wrong. But it seems you admit that men set the bar for women to observe and emulate.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that.

And men benefited equally from the matriarch.

By getting sodomized in divorce court?
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I don't think the bolded is it at all. I think that men want someone who not only loves them, but likes them as well, and is willing to work at having a relationship, rather than running out the door at the first sign of trouble. My experience and observation over the past 35-40 years is that women are usually the party in a marriage that doesn't have what it takes to make it last. They give up easily, and they don't want to accept men as they are, but they do expect men to accept them as they are. It's very mixed signals.

I essentially agree. Men want someone who will accept them, flaws and all. We're creatures of habit. We're like dogs to an extent - occasional scratch behind the ear, tell us we're a "good boy" and we stay under the porch.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Ummm... No, they're not. :lol:

Those kinds of men are making out like bandits like they always have. The ones who are getting shafted here, by and large, are young men who are either more average in terms of success, or who have not had the opportunity to professionally establish themselves.

What our society is currently witnessing is basically the first steps towards something like what's going on in Japan right now. Men and women are gradually drifting apart, and society is suffering for it.

Ummm...yes they are.

It's common sense.

Women - on average - make a LOT more money then they did 40 years ago (the CEO's of Pepsi, HP, IBM, Lockheed Martin, Dupont, General Dynamics, Xerox and Yahoo are ALL women - as examples). And I recall that I read somewhere that there are more women in colleges/universities then men.

Women CEOs of the Fortune 500 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Having the 'qualities' of 'fat, rude slobs that make decent money' (and notice I typed 'decent' money - not 'huge piles of' money) is far less in demand then it used to be.

Most women can make 'decent' money on their own now - so why should they put up with some fat, rude slob when they can find a man who makes as much as they do and is as fit, polite as these new women are?

The answer is - they don't have to and most won't.
 
Last edited:
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Apparently because women with the same opportunties and choices as men make some men feel less like men.

Typical feminist rhetoric, assuming men who've built buildings, established electrical wires, leaders in science, are jealous because women now dominate paper pushing human resource positions.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I dont know. I guess there are caricatures out here in real life but I dont associate with them. I have one foot solidly in the liberal high tech world professionally and one foot solidly in a the rural western lifestyle. Two opposites and in neither do I see any men *with brains* being minimized or not being 'men.' They are pretty different but they are 'men' and respected and in healthy...and not-so-healthy...relationships all the same. I dont hang out with alot of twenty-somethings but the people I do hang out with see TV and movies as just that...fiction. And they do not attempt to emulate that, they see it for the (mostly crappy) entertainment it is. And they dont teach their kids that either.

You're living in one of the most culturally conservative environments remaining in this country. Why would that surprise you?

The "skinny jeans" wearing effeminate hipster / metrosexual crowd, and the drug addled burnouts to which the OP alludes, are generally going to be relegated to more generally "Liberal" urban surroundings. The total number of them you're liable to encounter also differs significantly depending upon the region under discussion and its culture.

Ask S&M about it. She's made reference to the prevalence of these kinds of fundamentally confused "men" in her region on numerous occasions.

Ummm...yes they are.

It's common sense.

Women - on average - make a LOT more money then they did 40 years ago (the CEO's of Pepsi, HP, IBM, Lockheed Martin, Dupont, General Dynamics, Xerox and Yahoo are ALL women - as examples). And I recall that I read somewhere that there are more women in colleges/universities then men.

Women CEOs of the Fortune 500 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Having the 'qualities' of 'fat, rude slobs that make decent money' (and notice I typed 'decent' money - not 'huge piles of' money) is far less in demand then it used to be.

Most women can make 'decent' money on their own now - so why should they put up with some fat, rude slob when they can find a man who makes as much as they do and is as fit, polite as these new women are?

The answer is - they don't have to and most won't.

Again, it's not the men who "make money" that are having trouble finding women here. They never have been and never will be.

It's everyone else.

Even today, if I spend a night out in downtown Charleston or any other city, I tend to see a great many short and ugly (often older) guys accompanied by gorgeous young women. Depending on the venue, they're practically popping out of the woodworks.

What's the only thing they have going for them? Near as I can figure, a sport coat and expensive pair of shoes indicating their professional success.

A lot of women tend to be rather shallow and materialistic in that way.

The existence of female CEOs has absolutely nothing to do with it.
 
Last edited:
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Again, it's not the men who "make money" that are having trouble finding women here. They never have been and never will be.
Never? So you know what humanity will be like in this regard for the rest of eternity? Interesting.

It's everyone else.

Even today, if I spend a night out in downtown Charleston or any other city, I tend to see a great many short and ugly (often older) guys accompanied by gorgeous young women. Depending on the venue, they're practically popping out of the woodworks.

What's the only thing they have going for them? Near as I can figure, a sport coat and expensive pair of shoes indicating their professional success.

A lot of women tend to be rather shallow and materialistic in that way.

The existence of female CEOs has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Of course you do - they are called 'escorts' or 'friends'.

I guarantee you that the vast majority of the 'couples' you spy; the women who are not escorts/friends - the guy makes a pile more money then the gal. Most guys do not make 'piles' of money.


I am not going to have some useless debate with you over this - common sense says I am right and you are wrong.

As women make more and more money - they will be more and more picky...it's only natural.

40 years ago, they could not afford to be so picky, now they can.

And as the wage gap drops further - this trend will only accelerate.


You don't want to believe it? Go ahead, I don't really care.


Good day.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Never? So you know what humanity will be like in this regard for the rest of eternity? Interesting.

Of course you do - they are called 'escorts' or 'friends'.

I guarantee you that the vast majority of the 'couples' you spy; the women who are not escorts/friends - the guy makes a pile more money then the gal. Most guys do not make 'piles' of money.

I am not going to have some useless debate with you over this - common sense says I am right and you are wrong.

As women make more and more money - they will be more and more picky...it's only natural.

40 years ago, they could not afford to be so picky, now they can.

And as the wage gap drops further - this trend will only accelerate.

You don't want to believe it? Go ahead, I don't really care.

Good day.

Which is exactly what I said in the first place. Our culture is basically headed down the same road as Japan, where women have become so picky as to render relationship seeking futile, so a great many men have simply given up and stopped looking. This is not a desirable state of affairs.

Furthermore, absolutely none of this changes the reality that men who make "decent money" are generally held to be far more desirable than those who are more average. Women are naturally wired to seek out men who could serve as "providers," and they simply happen to best fit the bill.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I dont know, I wasnt quoting you.

I read the Amazon blurb, that's how it sounded. I mean what else are marriage and kids related to? Even the American Dream is completely family oriented.

Feel free to explain 'the nonsense.'

This topic certainly has some men quite defensive.

It's about the problems for men that come along with marriage and kids in society today and their feelings and reactions towards those issues. Your preconceived notion that it was about "traditional gender roles" is completely and utterly unfounded, and furthermore, commenting on the contents, or worse, passing judgment on a book you never read is just flat out stupid. Lastly, the book was written a psychologist specializing in forensic issues and men's issues that was writing about what she learned directly from men themselves. She was at no point in time suggesting the problem was a desire for "traditional gender roles" nor was she supporting "traditional gender roles" in her arguments. Really, do not comment on books you have never read. It's stupid.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Oh and btw, there is little doubt many of your comments in this thread Lursa are sexist. The little attack on men you had in your unanswerable question was sexist and this crap about how anyone that complains wants to "return to traditional gender roles" or how they are unattractive is sexist bull****.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Which is exactly what I said in the first place. Our culture is basically headed down the same road as Japan, where women have become so picky as to render relationship seeking futile, so a great many men have simply given up and stopped looking. This is not a desirable state of affairs.

Furthermore, absolutely none of this changes the reality that men who make "decent money" are generally held to be far more desirable than those who are more average. Women are naturally wired to seek out men who could serve as "providers," and they simply happen to best fit the bill.

Hypergamy and The Rosetta Stone of Women’s Behavior
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Which is exactly what I said in the first place. Our culture is basically headed down the same road as Japan, where women have become so picky as to render relationship seeking futile, so a great many men have simply given up and stopped looking. This is not a desirable state of affairs.

Actually, the problem in Japan is not that the women are too picky; It's that they are adhering to closely to the traditional gender norms where the wife stays home and it's the man's job to provide. The problem is, Japan's economy is not supplying enough well-paying jobs for men so there are not enough Japanese men who can fulfill their traditional role
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Actually, the problem in Japan is not that the women are too picky; It's that they are adhering to closely to the traditional gender norms where the wife stays home and it's the man's job to provide. The problem is, Japan's economy is not supplying enough well-paying jobs for men so there are not enough Japanese men who can fulfill their traditional role

Isn't the problem actually that most of them are deliberately going out of their way to avoid traditional gender norms which they find to be "troublesome" by remaining single and financially independent in the first place?

Sure, they'll pay lip service to the idea of marriage and family (as most women with that kind of lifestyle will), but they're generally not going to rush out to marry a man unless he is the very "cream of the crop." As such men tend to be rare, this naturally leads many of them to simply remain indefinitely single.

Most men, in turn, have simply stopped trying to court them.

Our own society's problems might not be quite that extreme, but many of the same themes (i.e. for women in particular, the idea of marriage and family as unnecessary burdens, rather than desirable goals) are present.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Typical feminist rhetoric, assuming men who've built buildings, established electrical wires, leaders in science, are jealous because women now dominate paper pushing human resource positions.

Women call them careers; men call them jobs.
 
Back
Top Bottom