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Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

Men: Would you marry an American Woman?


  • Total voters
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Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Interesting. Women are doing this too you know. I think I may fit that pattern, except I'm pretty happy with my piece of the American Dream. What makes the author think that these men are missing out on 'their' American Dream? (I havent read it, it may be covered.):

Men on Strike: Why Men Are Boycotting Marriage, Fatherhood, and the American Dream - and Why It Matters: Helen Smith: 9781594036750: Amazon.com: Books

We chose to live together, we decided we didnt want kids, so werent all that motivated to get married. It didnt mean all that much to us. For 11 of 13 yrs, we had a very good relationship. Then it was just basically over....kinda quietly, no drama, etc. We went our separate ways. The separation actually gave me more opportunity to pursue what I'd always wanted.

I opted out of marriage, and kids. No regrets. I have several female friends in similar situations. Several women, but I can only think of one man. Interesting.

However I think it's indicative that not only men are 'opting out' of traditional roles.' Altho I suppose the OP and the book are implying that it's American women's faults that men are doing so.

Edit: and btw, I cant knock it. I think way too many people are pressured into marriage...and kids...by family and by society. Too early and too much. Not everyone is cut out for it.
 
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Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

However I think it's indicative that not only men are 'opting out' of traditional roles.' Altho I suppose the OP and the book are implying that it's American women's faults that men are doing so.

It's not about traditional gender roles, hell, it's not about that at all. Your entire post was nonsense really.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

It's not about traditional gender roles, hell, it's not about that at all. Your entire post was nonsense really.

Did you read the book?
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

How well can she cook?
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Yes. I said as much already, didn't I?

I dont know, I wasnt quoting you.

I read the Amazon blurb, that's how it sounded. I mean what else are marriage and kids related to? Even the American Dream is completely family oriented.

Feel free to explain 'the nonsense.'

This topic certainly has some men quite defensive.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

If given the chance to re-marry would you marry (another) American woman?

Increasingly the answer is "no".

Men are increasingly disrespected by American women. They face extreme economic and social disadvantages in family law that makes it possible for a wife to divorce them and take most of what they have including their children for any reason or no reason. They are constantly told that they are worthless and stupid. Disrespect for men has become standard practice. Men are disrespected by their wives – they’re disrespected publicly, they’re disrespected privately, they’re disrespected and then told that they have no right to be upset about it because they aren’t worthy of respect in the first place.

Disrespect of men is a joke to Americans now.

The result has been that men are increasingly dropping out of society. They don't marry, they don't go to college because they see no reason to break their humps to get ready to provide for a family -- they aren't going to be having a family.

Lots has been written about this phenomena, most of it in the strain of "why is it that men are so childish now." But men are not dropping out because of arrested development. They are acting rationally in response to myriad laws, attitudes and hostility against them for the crime of happening to be male in the twenty-first century.

Men on Strike: Why Men Are Boycotting Marriage, Fatherhood, and the American Dream - and Why It Matters: Helen Smith: 9781594036750: Amazon.com: Books

No offense, but the above is absolute nonsense.

Men are not more disrespected...they are just less blindly respected. Good men are respected. Bad ones are not. And semi-good ones are semi-respected. Same with women.

Yes, gone (or going) are the days that men had almost all the political/economic power. I am a WASP male...and even I don't want those days to return. If anything, I think the world would be better off with women having more power, not less.

So yes, men now have to earn respect from women more and more as opposed to the 'way it was' - and that is a very good thing...for everyone.
 
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Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

However I think it's indicative that not only men are 'opting out' of traditional roles.'

Indicative of what? Women dropping out of traditional roles is due to the fact that women want to drop out. It serves their interests to drop out. Men aren't forcing women to drop out, are they?

Altho I suppose the OP and the book are implying that it's American women's faults that men are doing so.

There's a very good case for making such a charge. Men are reacting to women's changed roles. If one party reacts, it's because of something that the other party has done. That follows, right?

What we're seeing a lot of now in the popular culture is women telling men to shape up, to man up, to get with the program, to step up and become "husband material" for the women who want husbands.

Now what happens when men complain about women's new gender roles in today's society? They're told that they're losers and to suck it up, that women are not going to change just to please men. Well, why doesn't this answer apply to the women who are complaining about men who've dropped out?

It seems that women want men to go back to the male gender role that they desire, when they desire it, but they're unwilling to return the favor.

Those old gender roles were part of a system, they were mutually dependent. Men acted a certain way towards women and assumed certain obligations and women did the same. A system cannot remain standing and stable if half of the system is reformed and the interconnections are severed.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Indicative of what? Women dropping out of traditional roles is due to the fact that women want to drop out. It serves their interests to drop out. Men aren't forcing women to drop out, are they?

There's a very good case for making such a charge. Men are reacting to women's changed roles. If one party reacts, it's because of something that the other party has done. That follows, right?

What we're seeing a lot of now in the popular culture is women telling men to shape up, to man up, to get with the program, to step up and become "husband material" for the women who want husbands.

Now what happens when men complain about women's new gender roles in today's society? They're told that they're losers and to suck it up, that women are not going to change just to please men. Well, why doesn't this answer apply to the women who are complaining about men who've dropped out?

It seems that women want men to go back to the male gender role that they desire, when they desire it, but they're unwilling to return the favor.

Those old gender roles were part of a system, they were mutually dependent. Men acted a certain way towards women and assumed certain obligations and women did the same. A system cannot remain standing and stable if half of the system is reformed and the interconnections are severed.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Did you read this after you wrote it?

I'm sorry. I shouldnt be rude. But it's so obvious how entrenched your identity is...for males in general....if you cant see that we are still both mutually dependent then I cant help you.

The only difference *now* as opposed to the past is that women have more choices...pretty much (but not all) the same ones as men. Some men can adapt to that, maybe some cant, or wont. In the PAST, men nearly completely defined women's choices, except for reproduction. Now we can choose. I think that many men, including many in this thread, think women *choose* to be like men. That is wrong. We dont want to be like men. We just want to be able to choose. Most women STILL choose very feminine and maternal roles. Just with more of the *benefits* and opportunities that men have.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?


Well those are the codes. I am not saying that they are followed 100% from everyone.

Divorce not available in Albania then?

It is available of course. But I do not think it happens as frequently as what I hear around here.

It is so both in this northern part of Dardania/Albania as well as the rest of the body of Albania then.
 
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Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

If anything, I think the world would be better off with women having more power, not less.

Let's understand what is going on as this revolution unfolds. The older, more oppressive, system which governed society certainly constrained choices and there were consequences from those constrained choices. This newer model system has certainly opened up choices and this too has created consequences.

Which system is better is a complicated question which rests on how we define "better."


mating_cad_dad-copy1_zps4ee61e96.jpg
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Interesting. Women are doing this too you know. I think I may fit that pattern, except I'm pretty happy with my piece of the American Dream. What makes the author think that these men are missing out on 'their' American Dream? (I havent read it, it may be covered.):

Men on Strike: Why Men Are Boycotting Marriage, Fatherhood, and the American Dream - and Why It Matters: Helen Smith: 9781594036750: Amazon.com: Books

We chose to live together, we decided we didnt want kids, so werent all that motivated to get married. It didnt mean all that much to us. For 11 of 13 yrs, we had a very good relationship. Then it was just basically over....kinda quietly, no drama, etc. We went our separate ways. The separation actually gave me more opportunity to pursue what I'd always wanted.

I opted out of marriage, and kids. No regrets. I have several female friends in similar situations. Several women, but I can only think of one man. Interesting.

However I think it's indicative that not only men are 'opting out' of traditional roles.' Altho I suppose the OP and the book are implying that it's American women's faults that men are doing so.

Edit: and btw, I cant knock it. I think way too many people are pressured into marriage...and kids...by family and by society. Too early and too much. Not everyone is cut out for it.

I agree with your post...but especially the highlighted part.

I think a major problem in the world (among many) is too many lousy parents having children and f'ing the poor things up in the process. And then those children grow up (messed up) and then have children and mess their kids up.
And so on.

No wonder society is so f'ed up.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I haven't married an American, yet, I would. I had many great relationships with American women, but for some reason just wasn't in the right place or time for doing so. I suspect in the end, there are countless reasons why American women are unsettled as they are on this matter. Many do seem to be getting married. All in all, the problem may not be just with men or women, but both. They seemingly grow more and more unsettled, ungrateful, and all too more comforted by material gain, vanity, and notice over any true desire to love and be loved.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Let's understand what is going on as this revolution unfolds. The older, more oppressive, system which governed society certainly constrained choices and there were consequences from those constrained choices. This newer model system has certainly opened up choices and this too has created consequences.

Which system is better is a complicated question which rests on how we define "better."


mating_cad_dad-copy1_zps4ee61e96.jpg

Well I am among the upper ranked men and I still go with the regulated sexuality system. It is culture.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Let's understand what is going on as this revolution unfolds. The older, more oppressive, system which governed society certainly constrained choices and there were consequences from those constrained choices. This newer model system has certainly opened up choices and this too has created consequences.

Which system is better is a complicated question which rests on how we define "better."


mating_cad_dad-copy1_zps4ee61e96.jpg

No it's not...it's simple.

Equality is ALWAYS better. Suppressing people is NEVER better.

Forcing women into marriages they don't want and cannot get out of due to financial/social restrictions helps no one.

I don't want a wife who stays with me because she is afraid to 'go it alone'. I want a wife who thinks I am the best partner that she can find for her...period.
And the minute she no longer feels that way, I want her to go (I would rather live alone then with the wrong woman ANYDAY...I tried it both ways and I much prefer the former; but that's just me).
 
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Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

No it's not...it's simple.

You're wrong, it's complex. This is not some simple static model here, we're dealing with dynamic forces in play. Move one piece and this affects another piece, which in turn affects another piece. Lot's of unforeseen consequences coming out in the wash.

Equality is ALWAYS better.

As I noted, this depend on how you define "better." If Equality creates more opportunity but also creates dissatisfaction with social or married life, then only those who value opportunity (in whichever form it takes) are going to say that the deal is better. Those who get shortchanged in life satisfaction are going to say that matters are worse despite having the equality to pursue more opportunities.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

In concurrence with the OP, and how changing attitudes have changed the marriage landscape, here is a very interesting article from the usually Liberal New York Times on how moving away from traditional roles in marriage to an asexual division of labor, as is often demanded by Liberal Feminist women, may affect your sex life:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/magazine/does-a-more-equal-marriage-mean-less-sex.html?_r=0


"Does a More Equal Marriage mean less Sex?"

Definitely worth a quick read.
 
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Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

No it's not...it's simple.

Equality is ALWAYS better. Suppressing people is NEVER better.

Forcing women into marriages they don't want and cannot get out of due to financial/social restrictions helps no one.

I don't want a wife who stays with me because she is afraid to 'go it alone'. I want a wife who thinks I am the best partner that she can find for her...period.
And the minute she no longer feels that way, I want her to go (I would rather live alone then with the wrong woman ANYDAY...I tried it both ways and I much prefer the former; but that's just me).

Funny, I see the bold exactly the same...only for men. I, for the life of me, do not understand why men marry so easily and so often. There seems like less upside for them unless they are ready to have kids. This is just IMO tho. And I chalk it up to those familial and social pressures which are huge. So? Have some balls! Dont get married until you really want to. Dont be pressured into by women or your parents.

I know...I've been there. As a Christian female with Christian parents and is a part of mainstream American society. Who had to hear for decades...why arent you two getting married? Why arent you having kids?
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Y
As I noted, this depend on how you define "better." If Equality creates more opportunity but also creates dissatisfaction with social or married life, then only those who value opportunity (in whichever form it takes) are going to say that the deal is better. Those who get shortchanged in life satisfaction are going to say that matters are worse despite having the equality to pursue more opportunities.

As I often do in threads on this subject, I'd just like to remind people that "equal" does not mean "the same."

Jus' sayin'.

Men and women are equal. It doesnt mean they are the same. And offering the same (equal) opportunities and choices to both will not make them the same.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

I, for the life of me, do not understand why men marry so easily and so often. There seems like less upside for them unless they are ready to have kids.

Men have a higher suicide rate post-divorce than do women. A significant factor explaining this is that men, usually, have a far more constrained social-emotional network than women. This backtracks into marriage - a greater part of a man's emotional life is tied to his wife than the reverse. Female friendships have a different nature than male friendships, so getting married brings something to a man's life that he has a difficult time replicating via friendships.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

You're wrong, it's complex. This is not some simple static model here, we're dealing with dynamic forces in play. Move one piece and this affects another piece, which in turn affects another piece. Lot's of unforeseen consequences coming out in the wash.

.

True. But in the US, there's no way to change the natural progression that goes along with recognizing women as equal without the backwards steps of restricting us and our rights. Which would be completely unConstitutional.

So you cannot restrict women. Society has to adapt. Society and culture will adapt. And that involved swings and changes...that is inevitable. I dont know why this change is viewed so negatively. I only see it as was already posted by someone else in the thread...that men no longer have the same political and financial control over women. Who is to say that was ever 'right?'

So complaints in this department, like the OP post seems to be...seem useless to me. Societies adapt and change all the time. Women still appreciate "real men." Be one and you'll see :)
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

You're wrong, it's complex. This is not some simple static model here, we're dealing with dynamic forces in play. Move one piece and this affects another piece, which in turn affects another piece. Lot's of unforeseen consequences coming out in the wash.



As I noted, this depend on how you define "better." If Equality creates more opportunity but also creates dissatisfaction with social or married life, then only those who value opportunity (in whichever form it takes) are going to say that the deal is better. Those who get shortchanged in life satisfaction are going to say that matters are worse despite having the equality to pursue more opportunities.

I am not going to debate this because it should be incredibly simple...equal opportunities in life for women is always...ALWAYS a good thing.

Just as equal opportunity for racial minorities is ALWAYS a good thing. And so on.

If a few chauvinistic men (not that I am calling you or the OP author that...I do not know) get left behind because women do not worship them like they used to...tough. Then I guess it's time they got fit, treated women with more respect, looked themselves a bit more and became more 'desirable'.

Yes, the days of fat, rude slobs who make decent money always being able to find a woman are quickly fading...and a good thing for society too.
 
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Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Men have a higher suicide rate post-divorce than do women. A significant factor explaining this is that men, usually, have a far more constrained social-emotional network than women. This backtracks into marriage - a greater part of a man's emotional life is tied to his wife than the reverse. Female friendships have a different nature than male friendships, so getting married brings something to a man's life that he has a difficult time replicating via friendships.

Wow, that so does not seem relevant to what you quoted. Or only tangential. If men 'need' women like that...I dont think this has changed (in the context you posted) because of any recent changes in women's attitudes in the US...except that we have more freedom to leave a relationship.
 
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Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

Funny, I see the bold exactly the same...only for men. I, for the life of me, do not understand why men marry so easily and so often. There seems like less upside for them unless they are ready to have kids. This is just IMO tho. And I chalk it up to those familial and social pressures which are huge. So? Have some balls! Dont get married until you really want to. Dont be pressured into by women or your parents.

I know...I've been there. As a Christian female with Christian parents and is a part of mainstream American society. Who had to hear for decades...why arent you two getting married? Why arent you having kids?

I was fortunate, in a way. I came from an immediate family with 5 divorces in it before I was 25...so I was under NO pressure to either get married or to have children...quite the opposite actually.
 
Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

What conversation? No one is even interested in talking about the cultural problem the feminist movement caused.

That comment wasn't directed at you.
 
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