View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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    72 70.59%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #961
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    NoC_T's Avatar
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Let's review...
    Yes, let's:

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Nonetheless, my point about the survival of churches is legit. There was a real need to arrange survivors.
    And yes, informed and especially hindsight speculation can be legitimate or not, depending on its basis.
    How informed or legit is it, if it's a guess? The same applies for speculation. The basis is guesswork.

  2. #962
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Yes, let's:

    How informed or legit is it, if it's a guess? The same applies for speculation. The basis is guesswork.
    Well, you agree that women, at the time, did not have a voice. I think you'll also agree that the women of the early church were probably not engaged in the first round of feminism the world had seen. Right? So, if the women were not rising up in rebellion against all of mankind and known history, then... why the need to specify the need to be careful about them being prominent members of a church.

    Given an acceptance of the status quo of the time, and the persecution of the church, the need for this advice... is... survival of the church.

  3. #963
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Well, you agree that women, at the time, did not have a voice. I think you'll also agree that the women of the early church were probably not engaged in the first round of feminism the world had seen. Right? So, if the women were not rising up in rebellion against all of mankind and known history, then... why the need to specify the need to be careful about them being prominent members of a church.
    As a direct result of the matriarchal paganism that preceded Christianity. That was a threat to the patriarchal Church's power base. Women weren't thenceforth denied prominence in affairs (secular or religious) by means of clever wordplay. There was nothing whatever stealthy about it. They were directly and physically oppressed, as they had always been, but now with the specific objective of destroying any obstacles to a newly emergent theocratic hegemony. These guys weren't burning women as witches just for the sheer hell of it. It was systematised brutality with the objective of subjugating women beyond all hope of reclaiming paganism.

  4. #964
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    As a direct result of the matriarchal paganism that preceded Christianity. That was a threat to the patriarchal Church's power base. Women weren't thenceforth denied prominence in affairs (secular or religious) by means of clever wordplay. There was nothing whatever stealthy about it. They were directly and physically oppressed, as they had always been, but now with the specific objective of destroying any obstacles to a newly emergent theocratic hegemony. These guys weren't burning women as witches just for the sheer hell of it. It was systematised brutality with the objective of subjugating women beyond all hope of reclaiming paganism.
    We all know that women were treated as livestock at that time. Matriarchal paganism my ass.

    So why the need for the advice to the church?

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    We all know that women were treated as livestock at that time. Matriarchal paganism my ass.

    So why the need for the advice to the church?
    If you can think of an alternative, enlighten me. I have no fear that you're about to drop a bomb on me, Eco. If I'm wrong I am. If so, stop beating about the bush. This is wanton cruelty.

  6. #966
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    If you can think of an alternative, enlighten me. I have no fear that you're about to drop a bomb on me, Eco. If I'm wrong I am. If so, stop beating about the bush. This is wanton cruelty.
    I've explained very clearly the only logical reason for Paul to be moved to putting such advice in a letter to a church (in a particularly persecuted region). As you've acknowledged, women were in absolutely no position to have a voice at the time and there was almost certainly not a rising feminist movement in the church.

    The claim of "matriarchal paganism" is laughable. It's noble savage.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I've explained very clearly the only logical reason for Paul to be moved to putting such advice in a letter to a church (in a particularly persecuted region). As you've acknowledged, women were in absolutely no position to have a voice at the time and there was almost certainly not a rising feminist movement in the church.

    The claim of "matriarchal paganism" is laughable. It's noble savage.
    It's one of those little historical foibles that continues to remain unresolved. They're still debating it to this day. There was no Feminism, this is true, but there was Paganism, with no singular emphasis on the masculine. I'm inclined to believe Paul was actually a misogynist, though I can be far from certain, as I've said. Whatever the case, he couldn't have hoped to waylay Christianity in any guise.

    As a concession, I'd have better served you in using the word gynocentric, as opposed to matriarchal, that requiring more than merely an ideological proclivity. Still, the emphasis was on the feminine. The Church was never going to permit that. Were the Church's antipathy towards women merely grudging, as you suggest, why the need for a horrendous timeline of savage persecution? For kicks?

  8. #968
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    As a concession, I'd have better served you in using the word gynocentric, as opposed to matriarchal, that requiring more than merely an ideological proclivity. Still, the emphasis was on the feminine.
    Myth. The closest thing to "gynocentric paganism" at the time was whore houses (or hills, as the case was). Women had no power except as whores; paganism, Christianity and Judaism.

  9. #969
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Well, you agree that women, at the time, did not have a voice.
    WHY didn't the women of that time have a voice? WHY do women of today have a voice? WHY didn't the woman of that time do what the women of today did to get a voice? WHAT is stopping matters of today from reverting to the way things used to be?

    Could you please speak to the processes which make all this possible.

  10. #970
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    WHY didn't the women of that time have a voice? WHY do women of today have a voice? WHY didn't the woman of that time do what the women of today did to get a voice? WHAT is stopping matters of today from reverting to the way things used to be?

    Could you please speak to the processes which make all this possible.
    Social progress.

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