View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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  • Yes

    72 70.59%
  • No

    23 22.55%
  • Does not apply to me.

    7 6.86%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #911
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Hey, I totally respect your opinion ... I just find it funny that I used to view myself as a pragmatist too, and so far considered general disregard of state intervention as a very ideological thing. Probably you do the same thing from the other side.

    Anyway, even when I maintain the position that free markets are a good thing, I could say that the work housekeepers (usually wifes) are doing is not paid enough in our society. It's mothers who raise and educate the kids in traditional families, and their work is an invaluable benefit for society, even one that could be measured financially. How much taxpayer money is wasted because some mothers didn't raise their children well, and how much is saved, because many others did good jobs? The investment made in good education can be measured in dollars when it comes to school and university education, but isn't it the mother's work who laid the foundation for all that?

    So in a truly free market, every mother should be compensated for her good work financially, in theory. And not just by the moods of her husband, as families are running on a communist system.
    I 'liked' your post because you present a solid argument and I like that. But nonsense. She doesn't pay hubby for his contributions to the family and she doesn't expect payment for hers. Her contribution is to take care of the necessary duties of running a home and family, and, if there is time left over, to supplement the family income hopefully in an occupation she loves. In a truly equitable household, if her income becomes necessary to the family meaning she will need to devote more time to it, then he gives up some of his free time to help with taxi duties, run errands, and help out with household chores. Millions of us have successfully shared responsibilities in that way.

    It is the whole concept of traditional marriage. The man and woman leave their other families and join together as one unit--each their own personality and individual self--but one marriage that does what it needs to in order to get things done. You work it out. And, in my opinion, because the way most men and women are naturally wired, it just works out better for him to be head of household and chief bread winner and for her to be the heart of the home and the glue that holds it all together. When it works as it should, both can be the best they can be, will have chosen their way of life, and will be happy.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #912
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    There is little difference at the mean, but there is a big difference the further you move from the mean.

    There is a common complaint that the teaching of math is done in such a manner that it is made interesting to boys and discourages girls. All sorts of liberal education theorists are trying to concoct ways of teaching math so that it isn't racist or sexist. What they don't talk about is that if their hypothesis were true we should see boys outperforming girls, all boys. That's not what we see. What we see is that the highest performing students tend to be boys and that the worst performing students tend to be boys.

    We see women complaining about a "Patriarchy" which results in a lot of top male scientists, top lawyers, top business leaders, etc but they don't point to the higher rates of male failure as we see in crime, alcoholism, drug abuse, living on the streets.

    Males and females are near equal near the mean but the more we move away from the mean, in both directions, the more male variance we see.
    I think that might be true now. I honestly haven't delved into the statistics and studies specifically about that. I rather think that wasn't tue again in my distant past when education was a local community matter and the world had not yet discovered political correctness and social engineering. My memory may be faulty, but it was more often a boy who was valedictorian of the graduating class, and certainly the boys were doing as well as the girls overall in all subjects. But. . . .boys were expected to behave as little gentlemen i.e. MEN.....and the girls were expected to conduct themselves as little ladies i.e. WOMEN. There was absolutely no effort to create equality between the genders and it happened quite naturally.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #913
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That's not nice. Maybe they're in love.
    Maybe she's in heat.

  4. #914
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    ......... .
    Some of the things you say on this forum with regards to women's rights issues causes me to get this visual image of you as some fat old dude, almost bald with crazy grey hair , sitting around in his boxers and wife beater smoking a cigar and playing cards wit da boys. IOW, bitching because the world is changing and those dames are fagetin' der place.

    ..unlike what most feminists seem to imagine, it wasn't exactly like men were out there yuking it up while women suffered alone. Both "traditional" gender roles have their draw backs and limitations.
    What makes you think that this is what feminists imagine? It makes it sound as if there was some kind of envy for the life you imagine they imagine their men were leading. Fantasy

    the explosion of single motherhood and divorce in our society, for instance, have not been for the better.
    I would argue that. I believe a child raised in a happy home with a single parent is better off then in a home with two where each are miserable. You sound as if you bought in to that 1950s Ozzie and Harriet storyline. We both know that wasn't real. Fantasy

    .......... They also have not be in line with any sort of belief that men are "necessary" to female affairs.
    Men aren't "necessary" to female affairs. You couple with someone because you love them and want to share your life with them, not because they are "necessary".

    Again, I find this to be somewhat humorous considering how pissy a lot of feminists get when you propose the idea that such attitudes could ever be turned around on them.
    There are extremists in any group. I, personally, have never met a woman that has this point of view. I personally, find not being thought of as incapable of carrying my own weight insulting.

    Considering the fact that the vast, vast majority of divorces are initiated by women, and often for rather vain reasons, it is hard to deny that the institution of marriage has come to hold significant risks for men.
    Vain reasons? Such as?

    Weak, effeminate, lacking self-confidence and assertiveness, etca, etca. Basically the classic "hipster" or "door mat" archetype, if you will.
    I do now and always have found intellectual men very sexy. Men who are balanced and have a little higher emotional IQ then the frat boy or construction worker archetype you referenced. My guess is that you would provide this guy as YOUR example of weak or effeminate. So maybe your definition is a little broad.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  5. #915
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I think that might be true now. I honestly haven't delved into the statistics and studies specifically about that.
    This is biology, not culture, that is the culprit here. We've always seen more male variance. More male success, more male failure. We even see it in mating patterns. Men risk more and do more stupid stuff to impress women, some men succeed and others fail and women are more risk adverse.


    My memory may be faulty, but it was more often a boy who was valedictorian of the graduating class, and certainly the boys were doing as well as the girls overall in all subjects. But. . . .boys were expected to behave as little gentlemen i.e. MEN.....and the girls were expected to conduct themselves as little ladies i.e. WOMEN. There was absolutely no effort to create equality between the genders and it happened quite naturally.
    This is culture and biology. I posted somewhere upthread a link to a report about the observation that boys are performing better on objective tests and girls are scoring higher on their grades. Liberals and feminists have modified how grades are composed so that it is now measuring and rewarding something besides content mastery. When both grading and objective tests measured the same phenomenon, then that amplified the male variance. Nevertheless, back in the old gays, there were still a lot of boys at the bottom of the class, far more boys than girls, boys even back then had a higher drop out rate, higher delinquency rate, they got sent to the Principal's office more frequently than girls.

  6. #916
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I would argue that. I believe a child raised in a happy home with a single parent is better off then in a home with two where each are miserable.
    Go ahead and argue that. I'll enjoy reading that argument. All you've done here is asserted a proposition.

  7. #917
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Go ahead and argue that. I'll enjoy reading that argument. All you've done here is asserted a proposition.
    Is this your way of welcoming me to your special little world
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  8. #918
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Go ahead and argue that. I'll enjoy reading that argument. All you've done here is asserted a proposition.
    Is that not what we all do?

  9. #919
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    What makes you think that this is what feminists imagine? It makes it sound as if there was some kind of envy for the life you imagine they imagine their men were leading. Fantasy
    I agree with most of what you say, I'd just like to say that I've met feminists (two in particular, a female and a male) who were a bit ideologically dense IMO, insofar as I had the impression they're generalizing too much. That said, I totally agree with the vision of people valuing other humans as humans first, regardless of gender, and I think traditional gender roles are nothing but the personal, individual choice of consenting adults.

    I would argue that. I believe a child raised in a happy home with a single parent is better off then in a home with two where each are miserable. You sound as if you bought in to that 1950s Ozzie and Harriet storyline. We both know that wasn't real. Fantasy
    Just having become a father of a little daughter, I tend to say that bringing up a child is a difficult task that's hard enough to do for two parents, and one alone certainly has a major disadvantage. However, this only means effectively "one alone" in practize, not necessarily a certain family model: When the husband leaves the upbringing entirely up to the mother, she's factually alone. And a single mom isn't factually alone, when she has grandparents supporting her, and/or gay flatmates, etc.

    I'd just argue that raising a kid is a hard job that's better done by more than just one person, and that children need stable environments. The exact constallation, however, I don't think is so important. IMO.

    Men aren't "necessary" to female affairs. You couple with someone because you love them and want to share your life with them, not because they are "necessary".
    Applause! Couldn't agree more. Marriage shouldn't be a matter of vastly uneven power distribution, or even "prostitiution" of some kind. It should ideally be on eyelevel between both partners, who, like adults, together share responsibilities and roles.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  10. #920
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    This is biology, not culture, that is the culprit here. We've always seen more male variance. More male success, more male failure. We even see it in mating patterns. Men risk more and do more stupid stuff to impress women, some men succeed and others fail and women are more risk adverse.




    This is culture and biology. I posted somewhere upthread a link to a report about the observation that boys are performing better on objective tests and girls are scoring higher on their grades. Liberals and feminists have modified how grades are composed so that it is now measuring and rewarding something besides content mastery. When both grading and objective tests measured the same phenomenon, then that amplified the male variance. Nevertheless, back in the old gays, there were still a lot of boys at the bottom of the class, far more boys than girls, boys even back then had a higher drop out rate, higher delinquency rate, they got sent to the Principal's office more frequently than girls.
    Yeah, I read that too somewhere: Males are more represented among the extremes on both ends. Also when it comes to intelligence: The greatest genies and worst idiots are more often male than female.

    However, I'm not sure what conclusions that allows to draw from.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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