View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    None of these are from American, Canadian or British feminist groups. Islamic women are having to fight the battle largely on their own, with no help from feminist groups in the English speaking world.

    Here's an interesting observation. Why does the liberal National Organization for Women ignore the plight of Muslim women? - Yahoo Answers

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    None of these are from American, Canadian or British feminist groups. Islamic women are having to fight the battle largely on their own, with no help from feminist groups in the English speaking world.

    Here's an interesting observation. Why does the liberal National Organization for Women ignore the plight of Muslim women? - Yahoo Answers
    Actually, I found them all on NOW's website. Now is an American org

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    If I could call you an asshole without getting reported, I would. But I can't. So I won't.
    awesome
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    What frustrates the hell out of me is the hypocrisy of this perspective. I'm an insecure man and need to make certain all females maintain their submissive status so I can feel manly. Hugh? It takes a much more confident and manly (by my definition) man to work with women as equals and recognize that who they control has nothing to do with their manliness and that in-fact the need to oppress and control others is an expression of weakness, frailty and a very unbecoming neediness not to mention it is all done at the expense of others happiness and freedom.
    Frankly, the only real "hypocrisy" I see in this thread is how so many self-avowed "feminists" seem to have trouble grasping what's really going on here.

    Over the course of the last half century, there has been a consistent effort by many female groups to essentially "rebel" against the cultural standards and expectations to which society has traditionally held their gender. In many regards, this rebellion has succeeded.

    Well, I hate to break it to you, but the simple fact of the matter is that men are perfectly capable of "rebelling" too.

    Do you think all of the "leave it to beaver" style husbands who tended to characterize past generations actually enjoyed busting their asses for 50 to 60 hours a week at jobs they most likely hated? Do you think they were glad for the stress induced early graves such occupations often lead them to?

    Nope.

    They did it anyway, because it was what society expected them to do. They did it because they had families at home who needed to be fed, clothed, and sheltered, or they were expected to work towards the goal of eventually having one. In return, they were rewarded with sex, love, and affection from that family unit, and respect from society in general, which made the whole thing worth while.

    Unfortunately, that expectation really isn't as strong these days as it was in the past. Women have spent the last fifty years yelling and screaming about how they don't need men in their lives, and... Well, quite a few men have started to listen.

    As a result of that, a lot of young men are looking at the old "expectations" placed upon their gender, and wondering why in the Hell they should even really bother in the first place.

    After all, quite a few men can get sex pretty easily even outside of marriage these days. Frankly, even for those men who can't, marriage often tends to be a rather risky proposition, given the ludicrously high divorce rate in our society, and the disproportionate degree to which divorce legislation tends to favor wives over husbands.

    Can you really even blame a lot of men for slacking off a bit under these circumstances? What motivation do they have to succeed?

    It's actually kind of ironic that so many "Liberated" women seem to have such a problem with the concept, to be honest.

    You don't like slackers and effeminate "bitch men?" Well, the majority of men don't particularly care for domineering "career women" who tend to treat more traditional notions of femininity like a dirty word either.

    If we have to deal with it, so do you.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Oh brother. Do some science. I mean, do some very basic impartial observation of how men and women act. Look at the men who women find attractive and observe their behavior. The men generally are highly respected, command authority, exude strength of character and of body. Feminist theory would have us believe that PajamaBoy is the pinnacle of manhood

    Rather than this man:

    Women are notorious for the huge chasm between their Expressed Preferences and their Revealed Preferences when it comes to describing what they find attractive in a man.
    Tragic as the circumstances may be, I honestly can't help but be amused by the latent irony of the situation.

    Feminists have gotten basically exactly what they wanted. Women are "independent" and male culture has, to a large extent, been defanged and emasculated in comparison to what existed in the pre-feminist era.

    What have we found? Most of them can't stand it.

    They want to know where all the "real men" have gone, while completely ignoring the fact that it was the environment they were responsible for creating which played a large role in leading to the decline in prevalence of such "real men" in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    then either they have to adapt or keep at it until they find the right match.
    A lot of men are adapting. It simply happens to be in a way which isn't especially productive to society in general, or much in line with women's preferences.

    That's kind of exactly the problem.

    Frankly, the worst part is, given how our society has been restructured in recent decades, it kind of makes perfect sense from an "objective interests" point of view.

    Whining about it, or putting down women for wanting more....not manly....and that will make ya less attractive, no doubt!
    Who's whining? I'm simply stating the facts.

    Sure, I'm going to ridicule ridiculous statements along the lines of "money doesn't matter once you know a person," or the absurd premise that a never married singleton who probably hasn't dated in almost thirty years would know more about relationships and sexual attitudes among my age group than I do.

    However, that is hardly "whining."

    I'm doing the most "manly" thing I can right now, busting my butt trying to make something of myself in the worst economy since the Great Depression. It simply happens to be the case that this particular goal is best pursued without the company of members of the opposite sex (who almost universally, are looking for someone a lot more established than myself anyway) for the time being.

    Try to shame, browbeat, and ridicule me for that attitude if you will. I really couldn't care less.

    I'm in no hurry about these kinds of things.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-28-14 at 12:10 AM.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    ..............
    Frankly, the only real "hypocrisy" I see in this thread is how so many self-avowed "feminists" seem to have trouble grasping what's really going on here.
    You only time you think someone has grasped "what's really going on" is when they agree with you. Because we disagree does not mean that I don't get it. It just means that I don't agree with you.

    Over the course of the last half century, there has been a consistent effort by many female groups to essentially "rebel" against the cultural standards and expectations to which society has traditionally held their gender. In many regards, this rebellion has succeeded.

    Well, I hate to break it to you, but the simple fact of the matter is that men are perfectly capable of "rebelling" too.

    Do you think all of the "leave it to beaver" style husbands who tended to characterize past generations actually enjoyed busting their asses for 50 to 60 hours a week at jobs they most likely hated and very likely drove them into stress induced early graves?
    It's the limitations of gender roles that are being rejected.

    How is are his poor career choices her fault? Neither is his choice in commitments. If he volunteered for that role then he is committed to it through no fault but his own.

    The implication in this is that he's working hard and she isn't. You don't seems to have the slightest understanding of what it takes to run a household or raise children. She is working just as hard as him.


    They did it anyway, because it was what society expected them to do. They did it because they had families at home who needed to be fed, clothed, and sheltered, or they were expected to work towards the goal of eventually having one. In return, they were rewarded with sex, love, and affection from that family unit, and respect from society in general, which made the whole thing worth while.
    and that's a fine deal. the problem for women was that they were at the mercy of their husbands. Men, lacking any understanding of what it takes to run a home or appreciation for the needs of the family unit that she was providing, used women up and threw them away. Women were often left with nothing after years and years of sacrifice.

    Unfortunately, that expectation really isn't as strong these days as it was in the past. Women have spent the last fifty years yelling and screaming about how they don't need men in their lives, and... Well, quite a few men have started to listen.
    I find your lack of understanding about what the feminist movement is about astounding sometimes. But since I think you are completely lacking the capacity for empathy I won't bother to explain.

    As a result of that, a lot of young men are looking at the old "expectations" placed upon their gender, and wondering why in the Hell they should even really bother in the first place.
    since women aren't treated like a partner to any success the man has professionally but more like a parasite trying to benefit from HIS hard work their collective hand was forced. Stop whining like YOUR the victim.

    After all, quite a few men can get sex pretty easily even outside of marriage these days. Frankly, even for those men who can't, marriage often tends to be a rather risky proposition, given the ludicrously high divorce rate in our society, and the disproportionate degree to which divorce legislation tends to favor wives over husbands
    Explain how it favors women.

    You don't like slackers and effeminate "bitch men?" Well, the majority of men don't particularly care for domineering "career women" who tend to treat more traditional notions of femininity like a dirty word either.
    Define what makes a man a "bitch man"

    If a man does not want to fulfill the "traditional" role of provider for the family then it is good that he is now free to make that choice.

    I like my man to treat me like an equal and he does because he actually believes we are.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    It's the limitations of gender roles that are being rejected.

    How is are his poor career choices her fault? Neither is his choice in commitments. If he volunteered for that role then he is committed to it through no fault but his own.

    The implication in this is that he's working hard and she isn't. You don't seems to have the slightest understanding of what it takes to run a household or raise children. She is working just as hard as him.
    I think you might be missing my point here.

    I never said that women didn't have their own share of burdens as well. It was a team effort.

    My point was that, unlike what most feminists seem to imagine, it wasn't exactly like men were out there yuking it up while women suffered alone. Both "traditional" gender roles have their draw backs and limitations.

    There are plenty of less than pleasant things that go along with societal expectations of "manliness" that many men would probably prefer to avoid if they were able to do so.

    and that's a fine deal. the problem for women was that they were at the mercy of their husbands. Men, lacking any understanding of what it takes to run a home or appreciation for the needs of the family unit that she was providing, used women up and threw them away. Women were often left with nothing after years and years of sacrifice.
    Where such things did occur, they were wrong. It is good that our society now has a better understanding of those kinds of issues.

    I think we both know, however; that the changes which have taken place go far deeper than that.

    A great many of them, such as the explosion of single motherhood and divorce in our society, for instance, have not been for the better. They also have not be in line with any sort of belief that men are "necessary" to female affairs.

    The exact opposite stance has often been espoused, as a matter of fact.

    Again, I find this to be somewhat humorous considering how pissy a lot of feminists get when you propose the idea that such attitudes could ever be turned around on them.

    since women aren't treated like a partner to any success the man has professionally but more like a parasite trying to benefit from HIS hard work their collective hand was forced. Stop whining like YOUR the victim.
    A) How in the heck do you figure that women are not "partners" in their men's success?

    B) It isn't "whining." It is a simple statement of fact.

    Minus the sexual motivation, there really isn't as much incentive for young men to be as ambitious or responsible as they were in the past.

    Explain how it favors women.
    Child support, division of assets which tend to have come primarily from the man's earnings, custody and visitation rights rulings overwhelmingly favoring mothers, etca, etca.

    Considering the fact that the vast, vast majority of divorces are initiated by women, and often for rather vain reasons, it is hard to deny that the institution of marriage has come to hold significant risks for men.

    Define what makes a man a "bitch man"
    Weak, effeminate, lacking self-confidence and assertiveness, etca, etca. Basically the classic "hipster" or "door mat" archetype, if you will.

    On the flip side of that, you have the "dude bro" frat boy archetype. While they are more "masculine" than the previous group, they often tend to prefer a "Peter Pan" lifestyle which is lacking in serious ambition.

    If a man does not want to fulfill the "traditional" role of provider for the family then it is good that he is now free to make that choice.
    I sure as Hell seem to see a lot of "feminists" in this thread deriding such men.

    I like my man to treat me like an equal and he does because he actually believes we are.
    Equal but different. I see no problem with acknowledging such realities.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-28-14 at 01:08 AM.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post

    I sure as Hell seem to see a lot of "feminists" in this thread deriding such men.

    Equal but different. I see no problem with acknowledging such realities.
    Feminists? Reality Check: Women play a significant role in how the world works today. They just do and it won't stop. They are going to be assuming more and more of the roles that men have had in past history.

    I had to read back a ways to catch what you're creating massive numbers of paragraphs about. You crack me up. You really do when it comes to topics about the way you perceive men and women's roles in relationships, having babies...etc. Where have you been over this past century?

    Mr. Thomas...when YOU get in a committed relationship and go through the everyday riggers of life that couples have to endure over the long-haul then I might make consideration of all the "relationship" stuff you put out. Until then...meh...

    Where do you come up with all of this stuff...??? I'm here to tell you that life is somewhat more complicated than you seem to perceive it when it comes to relationships...but especially social roles between men and women. Just accept what is going on. You'll feel so much better for it.

    One day you'll meet a woman who will be a great provider to you and the household and you'll make a great homemaker. You'll probably win a prize for being the best diaper changer in the neighborhood.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Feminists? Reality Check: Women play a significant role in how the world works today. They just do and it won't stop. They are going to be assuming more and more of the roles that men have had in past history.

    I had to read back a ways to catch what you're creating massive numbers of paragraphs about. You crack me up. You really do when it comes to topics about the way you perceive men and women's roles in relationships, having babies...etc. Where have you been over this past century?

    Mr. Thomas...when YOU get in a committed relationship and go through the everyday riggers of life that couples have to endure over the long-haul then I might make consideration of all the "relationship" stuff you put out. Until then...meh...

    Where do you come up with all of this stuff...??? I'm here to tell you that life is somewhat more complicated than you seem to perceive it when it comes to relationships...but especially social roles between men and women. Just accept what is going on. You'll feel so much better for it.

    One day you'll meet a woman who will be a great provider to you and the household and you'll make a great homemaker. You'll probably win a prize for being the best diaper changer in the neighborhood.
    Annnnndddd... Other than providing an excuse for ad hominem attacks and good old fashioned b/f/t, what, pray tell, does this have to do with anything that I wrote?

    Women have always played a role in how the world works. Some might even argue that it is the single most important role in all of human society.

    It is indicative of nothing less than the most blatant sort of hypocrisy that so many self-avowed "feminists" would rage against the traditional roles held by women, only to then turn around and go out of their way to ridicule and "shame" men who have opted to eschew their own traditional roles.

    Quite a few ladies here doth protest too much, methinks.

    Such criticism actually makes sense coming from traditionalists. Feminists, on the other hand, if they were intellectually honest, should be positively thrilled with the results of their own handiwork.

    Credit where credit is due: While I might not fully agree with S&M's take on this particular issue, she is at least honest about its causes and implications.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-28-14 at 02:21 AM.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Annnnndddd... Other than providing an excuse for ad hominem attacks and good old fashioned b/f/t, what, pray tell, does this have to do with anything that I wrote?

    Women have always played a role in how the world works. Some might even argue that it is the single most important role in all of human society.

    It is indicative of nothing less than the most blatant sort of hypocrisy that so many self-avowed "feminists" who rage against the traditional roles held by women, would, at the same time, go out of their way to ridicule and "shame" men who decided to eschew their own traditional roles.

    Quite a few ladies here doth protest too much, me thinks. If they were intellectually honest, they would be proud of their own handiwork.
    Traditional roles defined by....??????

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Traditional roles defined by....??????
    You should probably catch up on what's been going on in this thread.

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