View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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    72 70.59%
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    23 22.55%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #631
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Just because it is an "extreme example" does not mean that the same principles do not still apply.

    Hardly. A growing minority of women are opting out of marriage and motherhood. This is true of the industrialized world in general.

    This has resulted in birth rates so low as to be unsustainable, and many men losing sight of their traditional role in society.
    The reasons behind the decline in Japan's birth rate, why women there are opting out of motherhood and how those reasons do not largely translate to the U.S., have been explained to you. By me and by Sangha. Further, as I have said numerous times, it is the responsibility of men to find their role in society, just as women have. No society is caste in stone, nor should it be. Societies are always evolving.

    You can believe that if you wish, but there is no hard data to suggest it definitely will take place.

    Make no mistake here. There is absolutely no scenario in which shrinking and / or aging populations will be a benefit to the industrialized world except but on the most extended and esoteric of long term scales. Frankly, even then, we'd almost certainly be better off if they simply kept right on growing.

    All these kinds of changes will result in are shrinking workforces, stagnant GPD, sluggish economic growth, fewer opportunities, higher national overhead in the form of social security and other such "safety nets," and more social stress exacerbating existing societal problems.

    A great many experts are already warning of these things.

    Population Decline Is Bad For Us

    Shrinking Societies: The Other Population Crisis
    I told you I was done reading long articles. Please do me the courtesy of pasting in excerpts that support your point, as I have done for you.

    I said it was coming almost exclusively from lower income demographics which had a strong tendency to be on welfare, not that they were necessarily on welfare.
    I provided a chart and and a excerpt on why that is not true.


    A) It has not "stabilized." It's rate of drop has simply slowed. It is still far too low to be sustainable.

    B) Numbers continued to drop in 2013.

    Birthrate continues to decline in the U.S.
    They are dropping at a lower rate and that is good since it the most recent drop was attributed to families holding off on having children while the economy was unstable.


    Japan is an example of exactly the same principles in action. As such, yes, it does apply.

    Beyond that, do you deny that the kinds of men being described in this thread exist, and that they are a recent development in our culture?
    See my first comment in this reply.

    Get pregnant at 25 if you want a high-powered career

    All of her links in that quote, are to other blog posts of her own and they do not link to any statement that supports the hotlinked text. For instance this one: There is no evidence that doing well in school during that period of your life will get you worthwhile benefits.

    It links to this blog post of hers and I cannot find that she says that anywhere in the post and in fact, she seems to be making the opposite argument:
    It used to be controversial to say that college is a rip off. At this point, I think the arguments have reached the mainstream. The problem is that, while some kids win the intellectual lottery, it's too risky for most kids to skip out on the credentials.

    So the question is: how can you make the most of the fact that you are going to college at a time when most people think college does not prepare you for the next step in your life?
    So, we can dispense with her.

    She made reference to the following in doing so.

    Why Women Still Canít Have It All[/quote]
    The next paragraph:
    Yet this sequence has fallen out of favor with many high-potential women, and understandably so. People tend to marry later now, and anyway, if you have children earlier, you may have difficulty getting a graduate degree, a good first job, and opportunities for advancement in the crucial early years of your career. Making matters worse, you will also have less income while raising your children, and hence less ability to hire the help that can be indispensable to your juggling act.
    There is a clear precedence for this.

    "Waiting" often leads women to simply never get married or have children at all.

    Frankly, beyond even that, there is the issue that pregnancies later in life tend to be far more dangerous than those in a woman's twenties, and result children which are far less healthy.

    Is that really fair?[/quote]

    That is a choice for a woman to make with her partner/spouse/.

    Many of the most successful women did not follow that trajectory at all.
    Three examples from the list:
    Meg Whitman, eBay founder and now CEO of Hewlett-Packard, earned her degree and began work at Proctor and Gamble before having kids.
    Virginia Rometty, CEO of IBM, no kids.
    Patricia A. Woertz, obtained her degree in 1974 and began work at Ernst & Young, before having children.
    Maybe so. Again, however; the simple fact of the matter is that the impacts of this have not been in any sense positive. Basically all that line of thinking seems to result in on a long term basis are the groups which indulge in it slowly dying off and be replaced by others, who simply happen to follow the more traditional model. It is essentially equivalent to cultural suicide via out of control materialism. Again, it is what it is. Why would you imagine that society needs strong "masculine" men when women have chosen to go it alone instead? Women said that they wanted to be "equal." As such, more men have started treating them as such, basically by not giving a damn. You can't have your cake and eat it too in this regard. Too little, too late. Furthermore, the trend towards childlessness is only increasing over time, not decreasing.
    This is all so meandering so I condensed it. Yes, others will come along to replace those who haven't replaced themselves and so on, but the country will go on, adapting as it ever has. We bear little resemblance to the founders of this country. In 200 years, the same will be true.

    The rest I can make no sense of, so I'll just say, society benefits from the contributions of both genders. Each brings something complimentary to the table. Women have not replaced men by going it alone. It's laughable that wanting to be treated as equals results in, in your estimation, men not giving a damn. If we can't keep to our "place", we are not worthy of having being in a relationship.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  2. #632
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Ummm... Are you seriously suggesting going to a bar or club for reasons other than "screwing around?"

    Good luck with that.
    Actually, I was suggesting the opposite, but it was you said this:
    Bars and clubs are, for all intents and purposes, the "default" mode of inter-gender interaction for the current generation. The online dating scene is a popular alternative, but even it tends to be far more focused on "screwing around" than serious relationship building when it comes to youth demographics.
    You implied it was for the purpose relationship building.

    No, I believe it is the case because that is what the statistics indicate. More men are dropping out of school, putting off marriage, and failing to achieve professionally than at any other point in the past.

    It is an objective fact.

    Now, in my case, and in the case of many others, this is purely economic. However, there are a great many men out there who are doing so as a matter of general principle.

    It really cannot be denied that this development is taking place in almost direct proportion to the propagation of feminist notions of "women's empowerment."
    Why is that? Why do they choose to do this? It is, after all, THEIR choice. If it's economically based, that does not have anything to do with women choosing careers before marriage. If it's a general principle, checking out of society is on them and they can have their principles to keep them warm at night. What you have done is make the case that these men have a problem they are creating for themselves and they are blaming women.


    Good for them. However, your "personal experiences" don't really count for much in this regard.
    No more or less than your own personal experience which you brought into the conversation.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  3. #633
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    The idea that marrying a foreign woman will solve problems reminds me of the Eddie Murphy show.

    HALF, Eddie, HALF

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    No one said that they weren't around.

    These days, however; they simply tend to be the exception, rather than the rule in demographics under thirty.

    Frankly, the fact that it is even necessary to basically bend over backwards to find anyone interested in something halfway serious (and even then, the vast majority of such relationships ultimately wind up ending in divorce) should really tell you something about the state of gender relations in our current society in and of itself.
    No one needs to bend over backwards. How do you think people met before bars? Social interaction at church and public functions. That's how. Either a guy wants a relationship and he puts the work in to find one, or he sits around complaining there are no good women falling into his lap while he's sitting around complaining about bending over backwards to find one.

    Divorce is another topic. The topic of this thread is marrying American women, with a side debate on why some men won't even look for one.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Apparently some people want mates delivered to them on silver platters.
    So I noticed and responded:

    Either a guy wants a relationship and he puts the work in to find one, or he sits around complaining there are no good women falling into his lap while he's sitting around complaining about bending over backwards to find one.
    We aren't steak. You just can't order us. :P (Paraphrased quote from "Working Girl".)
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Ahem:

    These advances are especially impressive because the massive immigration of unskilled Hispanic workers inflated the ranks of the poor. From 1990 to 2007, the entire increase in official poverty was among Hispanics.
    There is a chart in my post referencing that Hispanics make up 15% of welfare recipients.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You apparently have a pretty narrow window on the world. Don't take that as an insult because most people are like this. Our social worlds are very heavily restricted into fairly narrow categories. For instance, most couples with an IQ of 115 don't really have any IQ 85 people in their social world. The gaps between them are too large to bridge and there is less in common upon which to base a friendship.

    Your daughters interact with young men, that's no surprise, but it doesn't tell us anything, nor does it tell you anything, to observe this fact. What you're not observing is the young men that your daughters don't want to have anything to do with, young men like these guys - The New York Times:

    North Carolina, with a student body that is nearly 60 percent female, is just one of many large universities that at times feel eerily like women’s colleges. . .

    Jayne Dallas, a senior studying advertising who was seated across the table, grumbled that the population of male undergraduates was even smaller when you looked at it as a dating pool. “Out of that 40 percent, there are maybe 20 percent that we would consider, and out of those 20, 10 have girlfriends, so all the girls are fighting over that other 10 percent,” she said.

    Needless to say, this puts guys in a position to play the field, and tends to mean that even the ones willing to make a commitment come with storied romantic histories. Rachel Sasser, a senior history major at the table, said that before she and her boyfriend started dating, he had “hooked up with a least five of my friends in my sorority — that I know of.” . . .

    “It’s awesome being a guy,” admitted Garret Jones, another North Carolina senior, but he also lamented a culture that fostered hook-ups over relationships. This year, he said, he finally found a serious girlfriend.

    Indeed, there are a fair number of Mr. Lonelyhearts on campus. “Even though there’s this huge imbalance between the sexes, it still doesn’t change the fact of guys sitting around, bemoaning their single status,” said Patrick Hooper, a Georgia senior. “It’s the same as high school, but the women are even more enchanting and beautiful.”

    Think about that. Women are bemoaning the gender imbalance 60:40 and they're still cutting out about half of the guys on campus as not being date-worth, so now the imbalance grows to 60:20, a 3:1 ratio. When your daughter introduces you to her male friends, it's a pretty good bet that her male friends are not drawn from the pool of men near the bottom of the totem pole. You don't get to see them. Imagine how much it burns for these guys, a sea of women and the women are all setting their sights on the top guys, not just the girls who are 10s being interested in men who are 10s, but even the 6s are setting out on getting the 10s. Read the article because I didn't quote the parts about what these women put up with in terms of cheating from their men in order to keep a hold of their guys. They'd rather be walked all over than sink into the gutter and pair up in a 5 to 5 or a 7 to 7 or a 3 to 3 relationship.
    Having standards is a bad thing? First, any successful couple has to have common ground and interests. And if either side is too picky, they made their bed. They don't have to sleep alone forever.

    But what can be said about choosy women, can be said about some choosy men and what criteria they look for in women. Certain letters of the alphabet can be useful here; t and a especially.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    There is a chart in my post referencing that Hispanics make up 15% of welfare recipients.
    So? Your chart shows a snapshot of time, what this data shows is change over time.

    Liberals are interested in the War on Poverty. They want to reduce the poverty rate. This implies that there has to be change over time. They want fewer and fewer people in poverty as the years roll by.

    A boat will rise with the tide, but if you drill a hole in the hull of the boat, the boat will still rise but it will also be sinking.

    If we exclude Hispanics from the poverty data, then there has been no rise in the poverty rate since 1990. Isn't that fantastic news? The War on Poverty is working, the poverty rate is NOT increasing. What's going on is we're importing poor Hispanics and they're making it look like American society is failing at the War on Poverty.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Having standards is a bad thing? First, any successful couple has to have common ground and interests. And if either side is too picky, they made their bed. They don't have to sleep alone forever.

    But what can be said about choosy women, can be said about some choosy men and what criteria they look for in women. Certain letters of the alphabet can be useful here; t and a especially.
    And men have standards too and are choosy. Maybe not for sex but for mates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #640
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    So? Your chart shows a snapshot of time, what this data shows is change over time.

    Liberals are interested in the War on Poverty. They want to reduce the poverty rate. This implies that there has to be change over time. They want fewer and fewer people in poverty as the years roll by.

    A boat will rise with the tide, but if you drill a hole in the hull of the boat, the boat will still rise but it will also be sinking.

    If we exclude Hispanics from the poverty data, then there has been no rise in the poverty rate since 1990. Isn't that fantastic news? The War on Poverty is working, the poverty rate is NOT increasing. What's going on is we're importing poor Hispanics and they're making it look like American society is failing at the War on Poverty.
    I'm going to remember that this is not a thread about the War on Poverty and not participate in a derail.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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