As far as the US having many of the same driving factors, I have identified several things about Japan that do not apply here. The only similarities are the declining birth rate and marriage rate. Otherwise, the nations are extremely different, both culturally and economically.
No, #5 is not common in the US where living at home with one's parents is associated with being a loser, whereas in Japan there is absolutely no stigma attached to it. Saying that #2 is true completely contradicts claims you've made in other threads where you've said that young people are too promiscuous. #3 and #4 aren't even close to true. For the last twenty or so years, there have been plenty of married women in the workforce and they are not looked down upon and women are not fired for getting married. In fact, it is illegal to do so in the country.Plenty of people in the United States are guilty of number 5, and it is growing more common every year. Numbers 2 - 4 are arguably true of our society as well, but simply to a lesser degree than in Japan. Number 1 is, at the moment, anyway, peculiar to Japan.
They are all factors in Japan, as my extensive documentation proves. All you have done is ignore and deny the evidence in order to make baseless claims about Japan for which you have posted absolutely no evidence to support.However, all of this ultimately irrelevant, as none of these factors are the major driving forces behind Japan's current problems.
Again, even highly "progressive" societies, like Sweden, which take the economic edge off of childrearing almost entirely, suffer from the same problems with lack of marriages, slovenly men, and low birthrates as are faced by Japan.
You mean people like you? Funny how when you reject marriage, it's solely because of economic reasons. When others do the same, it's because they prefer to pursue their career instead of marriage.My family did it, and they did it on a salary that wasn't much more than 50K a year for most of the time I was growing up.
It is viewed as being undesirable, however; so most people avoid it.
And again, if those men don't make enough to date, they certainly don't make enough to support a familyAgain, what is the cost of living in Japan? How much does it cost to raise a family?
We already know that more than half of single men in Japan fall into the 2 to 6 million yen salary range. How much is needed?
I see. You're special. Everyone in Japan is just selfish while you're a long-term planner.I never said that it was particularly important to me for the time being. It is a long term goal, dependent upon certain outside conditions.
Clearly your lifestyle is more important to you than the marriage you claim to desire.Clearly that life style is more important to them than the marriages they claim to desire.
I have posted evidence that the women in Japan do not have careers. They have low-paying jobs, many of which are temp jobs.They have careers at all. Yes, it does.
Frankly, everything you've claimed here could be (and often is) claimed by feminist groups about United States' culture as well.
And the % of women who work regularly has been going down, not up. You still have explained how that is evidence that the women today consider their careers to be more important than marriage.
[qute]Yes, all of which supports my claim that they do not desire "traditional values" and are actually remaining single to avoid them.
It sounds like you do not desire traditional values and are actually remaining single to avoid them.
No, the circumstances in Japan are found nowhere else in any modern society. The notion of female empowerment has gone nowhere in Japan.Again, many of these same problems exist even in the most "gender equal" societies on Earth.
The stubbornness to which you refer undoubtedly plays a role in pushing Japan completely over the edge in comparison to other nations. However, it's not like the rest of the industrialized world was ever doing particularly great in this regard in the first place.
The "career oriented" model of female empowerment simply does not mesh with the notions of motherhood and committed relationships under most circumstances.
USATODAY.com - Female CEOs signal change at Japan firms
Women account for fewer than 0.8% of the CEOs at Japanese companies that have shares listed on the stock market. In the USA, women head nine (1.8%) of the Fortune 500 companies.
• Japan ranks well below average — No. 38 out of 58 countries studied — in providing economic opportunities to women, according to a recent study by the World Economic Forum. (The USA ranked No. 17, and Sweden was No. 1.)
• Women are the top executives at just 5.64% of all registered Japanese companies, a percentage that has been rising but at an excruciating pace — from 5.53% in 2000, according to the research firm Teikoku Databank.
• Just 3% of Japanese companies have a woman on their boards, vs. more than 86% for U.S. companies, according to Corporate Women Directors International, a non-profit organization dedicated to getting more women on corporate boards. The 27 Japanese companies in the Fortune Global 200 last year had just three female directors — 0.7% of their total directors, lowest in the world.They can't afford to date, and you think they can afford to support a family. Even the link you posted said it's nearly impossible for most of these young men to support a family on their income.That is their perception. It doesn't mean that it is necessarily true on an objective basis.
Your own link described it as impossible for most young men.That would only render the situation difficult, not impossible.
Yes, I know. No matter how much evidence has been posted, including from the link that *you* posted, you will not believe it.I find it exceptionally hard to believe that so large a portion of Japanese society could be destitute as to be rendered completely incapable of supporting a family.
Maybe they can support themselves, but they can not support a family. Even your own link says it's impossible for most young men.According to some studies, many Japanese men who actually can support themselves simply prefer to be single.
An internet poll? Seriously dude?Increasing number of Japanese men opt for bachelorhood
This is a trend that apparently goes both ways.
You just got done telling me how someone can say anything on a poll. Now you're using a poll (of just 300 people who were self-selected) to "prove" you're right?
And you do know how inaccurate self-selected polls are right? I mean, you are an analyst.
You seem incapable of recognizing anything that contradicts your claims.
No one said anything about abject poverty. You're making stuff up because you can't dispute the things that have actually been said.I have seen no evidence to suggest that most single women would be marrying into abject poverty if they were to commit themselves to these men. Things would simply be more difficult than they might prefer, and they are not fond of the social expectations that go along with the institution, so they generally opt to remain under their current circumstances instead.
We're not talking about your choices. We're talking about the JapaneseAgain, it is a matter of personal choice under most circumstances, not necessity.
To be clear, the OP was not a call to order a bride from Russia or turn to other foreign women. The main point was the way men are being treated and regarded in American society. If you claim not to know what I'm referring to then you are being willfully blind and disenginious. The discussion started with marriage because marriage is the locus of many of the legal and societal sanctions against men, and American women are particularly inclined to take full advantage of the lack of fairness, even regarding it as their birthright. Which is why so many men are voting with their feet and avoiding the roles of husband, father, and provider.
It goes far, far beyond male dissatisfaction over the loss of traditional male roles and into the realm of unreasonable hatred and bigotry being directed toward men for no more than being men. Legal sanctions against men and disrespect of men are also strong on college campuses, and so we have seen a drop in male enrollment.
But it starts even earlier than that, with boys being shunted to alternative schools and drugged for acting like boys instead of like girls, which is what teachers, which are almost all women, prefer. It isn't any wonder that by they time they leave high school many young men have had their fill of academe.
“We do not believe any group of men adequate enough or wise enough to operate without scrutiny or without criticism. We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it, that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. We know that in secrecy error undetected will flourish and subvert”. – J Robert Oppenheimer.