View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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  • Yes

    72 70.59%
  • No

    23 22.55%
  • Does not apply to me.

    7 6.86%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #551
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Johnson View Post
    Then prove it, like I've asked of you before. Otherwise further replies to me are just ridiculous suppositions.
    If you missed European history, I will lobby to replace the politicians who have left your schools in such decline, but I don't feel inclined to kowtow to intentional time wasters.

  2. #552
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    If you missed European history, I will lobby to replace the politicians who have left your schools in such decline, but I don't feel inclined to kowtow to intentional time wasters.
    Yeah I figured you'd reneg. Predictable.

    Have a good day with your "logic."
    If you're not ready to die for it, put the word 'freedom' out of your vocabulary. - El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz

  3. #553
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    There are plenty of sexually disinterested shut-ins, and people like myself, who have simply stopped trying to date, in the United States as well.

    Most of the same driving principles which lead to this state of affairs in Japan, also lead to it here. There are simply fewer of them.
    We're not talking about shut-ins. Shut-ins are very uncommon in Japan (est at less than 1%) and even more so in the US. There's no evidence that the # of shut-ins are increasing in the US. Let's not confuse the issue with yet another of your irrelevant distractions.

    As far as the US having many of the same driving factors, I have identified several things about Japan that do not apply here. The only similarities are the declining birth rate and marriage rate. Otherwise, the nations are extremely different, both culturally and economically.

    Plenty of people in the United States are guilty of number 5, and it is growing more common every year. Numbers 2 - 4 are arguably true of our society as well, but simply to a lesser degree than in Japan. Number 1 is, at the moment, anyway, peculiar to Japan.
    No, #5 is not common in the US where living at home with one's parents is associated with being a loser, whereas in Japan there is absolutely no stigma attached to it. Saying that #2 is true completely contradicts claims you've made in other threads where you've said that young people are too promiscuous. #3 and #4 aren't even close to true. For the last twenty or so years, there have been plenty of married women in the workforce and they are not looked down upon and women are not fired for getting married. In fact, it is illegal to do so in the country.
    However, all of this ultimately irrelevant, as none of these factors are the major driving forces behind Japan's current problems.

    Again, even highly "progressive" societies, like Sweden, which take the economic edge off of childrearing almost entirely, suffer from the same problems with lack of marriages, slovenly men, and low birthrates as are faced by Japan.
    They are all factors in Japan, as my extensive documentation proves. All you have done is ignore and deny the evidence in order to make baseless claims about Japan for which you have posted absolutely no evidence to support.

    My family did it, and they did it on a salary that wasn't much more than 50K a year for most of the time I was growing up.
    It is viewed as being undesirable, however; so most people avoid it.
    You mean people like you? Funny how when you reject marriage, it's solely because of economic reasons. When others do the same, it's because they prefer to pursue their career instead of marriage.

    Again, what is the cost of living in Japan? How much does it cost to raise a family?

    We already know that more than half of single men in Japan fall into the 2 to 6 million yen salary range. How much is needed?
    And again, if those men don't make enough to date, they certainly don't make enough to support a family

    I never said that it was particularly important to me for the time being. It is a long term goal, dependent upon certain outside conditions.
    I see. You're special. Everyone in Japan is just selfish while you're a long-term planner.

    Clearly that life style is more important to them than the marriages they claim to desire.
    Clearly your lifestyle is more important to you than the marriage you claim to desire.

    They have careers at all. Yes, it does.

    Frankly, everything you've claimed here could be (and often is) claimed by feminist groups about United States' culture as well.
    I have posted evidence that the women in Japan do not have careers. They have low-paying jobs, many of which are temp jobs.

    And the % of women who work regularly has been going down, not up. You still have explained how that is evidence that the women today consider their careers to be more important than marriage.

    [qute]Yes, all of which supports my claim that they do not desire "traditional values" and are actually remaining single to avoid them.
    [/quote]

    It sounds like you do not desire traditional values and are actually remaining single to avoid them.

    Again, many of these same problems exist even in the most "gender equal" societies on Earth.

    The stubbornness to which you refer undoubtedly plays a role in pushing Japan completely over the edge in comparison to other nations. However, it's not like the rest of the industrialized world was ever doing particularly great in this regard in the first place.

    The "career oriented" model of female empowerment simply does not mesh with the notions of motherhood and committed relationships under most circumstances.
    No, the circumstances in Japan are found nowhere else in any modern society. The notion of female empowerment has gone nowhere in Japan.

    USATODAY.com - Female CEOs signal change at Japan firms
    Women account for fewer than 0.8% of the CEOs at Japanese companies that have shares listed on the stock market. In the USA, women head nine (1.8%) of the Fortune 500 companies.

    • Japan ranks well below average — No. 38 out of 58 countries studied — in providing economic opportunities to women, according to a recent study by the World Economic Forum. (The USA ranked No. 17, and Sweden was No. 1.)

    • Women are the top executives at just 5.64% of all registered Japanese companies, a percentage that has been rising but at an excruciating pace — from 5.53% in 2000, according to the research firm Teikoku Databank.

    • Just 3% of Japanese companies have a woman on their boards, vs. more than 86% for U.S. companies, according to Corporate Women Directors International, a non-profit organization dedicated to getting more women on corporate boards. The 27 Japanese companies in the Fortune Global 200 last year had just three female directors — 0.7% of their total directors, lowest in the world.
    That is their perception. It doesn't mean that it is necessarily true on an objective basis.
    They can't afford to date, and you think they can afford to support a family. Even the link you posted said it's nearly impossible for most of these young men to support a family on their income.
    That would only render the situation difficult, not impossible.
    Your own link described it as impossible for most young men.

    I find it exceptionally hard to believe that so large a portion of Japanese society could be destitute as to be rendered completely incapable of supporting a family.
    Yes, I know. No matter how much evidence has been posted, including from the link that *you* posted, you will not believe it.

    According to some studies, many Japanese men who actually can support themselves simply prefer to be single.
    Maybe they can support themselves, but they can not support a family. Even your own link says it's impossible for most young men.

    Increasing number of Japanese men opt for bachelorhood

    This is a trend that apparently goes both ways.
    An internet poll? Seriously dude?

    You just got done telling me how someone can say anything on a poll. Now you're using a poll (of just 300 people who were self-selected) to "prove" you're right?

    And you do know how inaccurate self-selected polls are right? I mean, you are an analyst.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #554
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Feminism in Japan



    They might be less equal, but that doesn't mean that feminism hasn't had an impact.
    Your own quote says "They did not aim for equality with men"

    You seem incapable of recognizing anything that contradicts your claims.



    I have seen no evidence to suggest that most single women would be marrying into abject poverty if they were to commit themselves to these men. Things would simply be more difficult than they might prefer, and they are not fond of the social expectations that go along with the institution, so they generally opt to remain under their current circumstances instead.
    No one said anything about abject poverty. You're making stuff up because you can't dispute the things that have actually been said.


    Again, it is a matter of personal choice under most circumstances, not necessity.
    We're not talking about your choices. We're talking about the Japanese
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #555
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    From your article:


    Different kind and different reasons than in the U.S.
    No matter how many times we point out that different cultures are different (which should be obvious to everyone), Gath will continue to insist that we have the same problems, not different ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #556
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    It's not a matter of choice, it just is the way it is. Think of it like a low-grade depression. The will is eroded. Look at these guys yourself. They're going they're own way. They're not on script anymore. They seem to be happy, they're playing their games, mountain biking, going out with their buddies, and doing whatever it is that they're doing. What they're not doing is doing things which appeal to women. One of those things that they're not doing is working more than is necessary to maintain their minimalist lifestyle.
    You make men sound like such delicate flowers who can't achieve without the help of a woman. You also make them sound shallow and childish.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #557
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by DominorVobis View Post
    Maybe some men need to be respected less, the posts here are suggesting they do. Haven't seen many men here I would respect, if I was a woman or not. There are a lot of sad men here. IMHO
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So let me know how well the whining on the internets thing works for getting women to respect you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The reasl problem is people who think they deserve respect instead of working to earn it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    So, don't get with a person who disrespects you. You think foreign people can't be rude and disrespectful? Think again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Exactly. While there are, arguably, some perks to marrying foreign, and there are some rather troubling trends running through modern American culture, it's not like every woman in the United States is a soul sucking she-devil either. There are plenty of "nice" girls to be found in the US, many of them with family oriented values and sensibilities. A guy just needs to know where to look for them.

    Frankly, if you're willing to respect yourself, and stand by your values, you shouldn't need to worry about anyone else disrespecting you or forcing you to change what you believe anyway.

    Lord knows I'm not about to change my allegedly "cave man" ways simply to appease some pushy female who majored in "women's studies" in college. There's really no reason why any other man should have to do so either.

    Rolling over and "playing dead" is always a personal choice. Claiming that someone else forced you into it is nothing more than a convenient excuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    *yawn* More whining from the strike-out crew, blaming their own issues with getting a date and keeping a mate on some evil feminist conspiracy.

    The fact is, America is far less feminist and less equal than many of the countries you folks would prefer to "get your women" from. I don't think any of you even know what progressive gender dynamics are, if you think for one second that America qualifies in the grand scheme of developed nations.

    It's also kind of hysterical that you fail to see that talking about women as though they were various flavors of soup and whining like children might be part of the reason you're having a hard time finding a date.

    Yeah, some chick in a magazine in a backwater sinkhole of a country will probably marry you. But trust me, and trust the many men who've been burned by them, it isn't because of her "traditional values." It's because her life sucks and you're her ticket out. This goes both ways -- men are the predators in some other countries in Europe, tricking vulnerable Eastern block women with free movement in the EU.

    I'm sure I'll be accused by people who know better of all the usual -- the archetype of the man-hating feminazi psycho -- despite my endless hours and tens of thousands of words dedicated to discussing gender issues going both ways.

    But fine with me. I don't really concern myself with impressing the furious projecting type.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Some men DO want a woman they can control, and they don't want a woman who can think for herself. I think this is one reason why some conservative men seem to be "interested" in young teen girls or want to go "get a woman" from another country because they are under the impression she will be more submissive.
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Men need respect in a marriage the way women need love in a marriage. If your culture isn't designed to teach men to be loving towards women, and to teach women to be respectful towards men, well, one or more likely both of those genders isn't going to be getting their emotional needs filled, and it's going to poison the relationship.

    Worth noting before anyone decides to launch a collective bra-burning, "respect" =/= "subservience".
    For those who posted to pour scorn on men as "whining" about the way men are being treated in American society, you're just proving my point, are you not?

    To be clear, the OP was not a call to order a bride from Russia or turn to other foreign women. The main point was the way men are being treated and regarded in American society. If you claim not to know what I'm referring to then you are being willfully blind and disenginious. The discussion started with marriage because marriage is the locus of many of the legal and societal sanctions against men, and American women are particularly inclined to take full advantage of the lack of fairness, even regarding it as their birthright. Which is why so many men are voting with their feet and avoiding the roles of husband, father, and provider.

    It goes far, far beyond male dissatisfaction over the loss of traditional male roles and into the realm of unreasonable hatred and bigotry being directed toward men for no more than being men. Legal sanctions against men and disrespect of men are also strong on college campuses, and so we have seen a drop in male enrollment.

    But it starts even earlier than that, with boys being shunted to alternative schools and drugged for acting like boys instead of like girls, which is what teachers, which are almost all women, prefer. It isn't any wonder that by they time they leave high school many young men have had their fill of academe.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  8. #558
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    If given the chance to re-marry would you marry (another) American woman
    ?

    Increasingly the answer is "no".

    Men are increasingly disrespected by American women. They face extreme economic and social disadvantages in family law that makes it possible for a wife to divorce them and take most of what they have including their children for any reason or no reason. They are constantly told that they are worthless and stupid. Disrespect for men has become standard practice. Men are disrespected by their wives – they’re disrespected publicly, they’re disrespected privately, they’re disrespected and then told that they have no right to be upset about it because they aren’t worthy of respect in the first place.

    Disrespect of men is a joke to Americans now.

    The result has been that men are increasingly dropping out of society. They don't marry, they don't go to college because they see no reason to break their humps to get ready to provide for a family -- they aren't going to be having a family.

    Lots has been written about this phenomena, most of it in the strain of "why is it that men are so childish now." But men are not dropping out because of arrested development. They are acting rationally in response to myriad laws, attitudes and hostility against them for the crime of happening to be male in the twenty-first century.

    Men on Strike: Why Men Are Boycotting Marriage, Fatherhood, and the American Dream - and Why It Matters: Helen Smith: 9781594036750: Amazon.com: Books



    I would, but that's not going to happen anytime soon, because I'm already married.

  9. #559
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    For those who posted to pour scorn on men as "whining" about the way men are being treated in American society, you're just proving my point, are you not?

    To be clear, the OP was not a call to order a bride from Russia or turn to other foreign women. The main point was the way men are being treated and regarded in American society. If you claim not to know what I'm referring to then you are being willfully blind and disenginious. The discussion started with marriage because marriage is the locus of many of the legal and societal sanctions against men, and American women are particularly inclined to take full advantage of the lack of fairness, even regarding it as their birthright. Which is why so many men are voting with their feet and avoiding the roles of husband, father, and provider.

    It goes far, far beyond male dissatisfaction over the loss of traditional male roles and into the realm of unreasonable hatred and bigotry being directed toward men for no more than being men. Legal sanctions against men and disrespect of men are also strong on college campuses, and so we have seen a drop in male enrollment.

    But it starts even earlier than that, with boys being shunted to alternative schools and drugged for acting like boys instead of like girls, which is what teachers, which are almost all women, prefer. It isn't any wonder that by they time they leave high school many young men have had their fill of academe.

    yes - men are the true victims here in America......victims....

  10. #560
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    It goes far, far beyond male dissatisfaction over the loss of traditional male roles and into the realm of unreasonable hatred and bigotry being directed toward men for no more than being men.
    WTF are you talking about?


    What kind of bizarro world life are you leading?

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