View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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  • Yes

    72 70.59%
  • No

    23 22.55%
  • Does not apply to me.

    7 6.86%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #481
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Society has scripts for men and women. They're general scripts of course, but still, these scripts tell us what is expected of us. These scripts have changed over time. Men used to be expected to do A + B + C + D and women were expected to do Z + Y + X + W and this resulted in a stable society. The script for woman has been changed by the revolution of feminism. Now women read the script and that script paints a very different picture for women than it used to. The script for women has changed a lot more than the script for men. Well, if the two historical scripts for men and women resulted in the creation of stability, then changing one script while leaving the other intact is going to create instability. Either the instability can be stabilized or it can't. If it can, then society continues to function but in a new manner. If it can't then society crumbles, just like other societies throughout history have crumbled.

    Women's sexuality has been freed. That's great for women and that's great for a lot of men. It might not be so great for a stable society though. Women are objecting to the fact that men like sleeping with them but won't commit to relationships. Women have the freedom to fully express their sexuality with lessened stigma attached to such expressions. That sexual freedom though comes at a cost. Men are showing that they're less willing to commit, especially the men who are the beneficiaries of sex with a lot of women. Women seem to find preselected men attractive - if other women qualify a man as being desirable then that makes him more attractive, and so we get a lot more women chasing fewer desirable men. This leaves the guys at the bottom of the totem pole stranded because all of the women have shifted their sights a few notches higher. This state of affairs is what genetic analysis shows us actually transpired during the long run-up that humanity followed to civilization - about 80% of all women who had ever lived, reproduced, compared to about 40% of men. We see that dynamic in many parts of nature too.

    OK Cupid has been doing a lot of number crunching on their database. They reported that women rate 80% of men below average. Do you see the problem with that? The male mean that women desire has been upshifted. The guys that women desire to marry don't want to marry them because they're enjoying being a scarce commodity. This dynamic is even taking place on university campuses. It's so funny to watch and sad in a way too. Plenty of schools now have 2 women for every guy. Terrific to be a guy, right? Maybe. The loser guys are still loser guys and the scarcity of men isn't helping them with women. It's the guys at the top who are reaping the benefit of all the women students. This is female sexuality unleashed from societal restraints. Yay freedom. As with double entry bookkeeping, for every credit there is a debit.

    Those two articles I linked speak to two sides of the same coin. Women are scripted to see their roles in certain ways or are scripted to see the parameters of what is either acceptable or expected, so the script of women going to school, riding the merry go round of multiple men, launching a career, focusing on their career and then turning their attention to finding a mate is seen as normal. They'll get all of the bad boys out of their system and then find a nice guy to settle down with. Well, those nice guys don't like that. They want to be with these women when they're young, firm, bubbly, not jaded, not afflicted with a scarred heart and wounded self-esteem from being dumped so frequently by the high quality men that they've been targeting and not getting. The most valuable things that a woman can give to a man are wasted on the wrong men and then when the women choose to settle they give the man what's left over. The men aren't finding that to be such a great bargain, hence they're no so eager to settle with these older women because now they're either disengaged and gone their own way or they're using what they've got to target the younger women who do find them attractive. After all, there is still plenty of sex going on all over the place, it's just not working out the way women want it to work out.
    People dont think of society, they think of themselves and their own happiness. Thinking of 'society' will not make a marriage work. You have to be happy, you have to make each other happy.

    It's not realistic to think that looking at the effects on society are going to have any affect on individual human behavior. At least not regarding sex, marriage, and reproduction.

    And there is too much positive reinforcement for people that choose happiness (by definition ) Or at least instant gratification and selfishness. So society will just have to adapt, the way it always has.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #482
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Johnson View Post
    Cherry picking from history, are you?

    Most men did benefit from patriarchy, no matter your socialist agenda towards wealthy men. Men got to have good paying jobs, kept their families intact, and didn't have to worry about their women becoming self-entitled to every asset and luxury they never worked a day in their lives for. As is the case with today's modern woman.

    You're beating a dead horse about wealthy men and it shows your complete denial of history.
    No. That's how strong patriarchies have always worked the world over. The less these things happen, the weaker the patriarchy is. It's been weakening in the West for about 200 years, slowly but surely.

    My what agenda? And are you serious? Most men did NOT have good paying jobs under the strong patriarchy. They were hardly more than slaves, and that's still true in strongly patriarchal countries (all of which are in the third world, by the way). Under strong patriarchies, most people are extremely poor.

    Uh, you are aware most women now work, right? In fact, younger women tend to make more money than younger men. They worked plenty for what they have.

    Ok, I'll add an addendum: if a woman of high royalty was lucky enough not to have been married off when the ruling king dies, she may find herself with power. Other than that... nope. That's pretty much how it works.

  3. #483
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post

    OK Cupid has been doing a lot of number crunching on their database. They reported that women rate 80% of men below average. Do you see the problem with that? The male mean that women desire has been upshifted. The guys that women desire to marry don't want to marry them because they're enjoying being a scarce commodity. This dynamic is even taking place on university campuses. It's so funny to watch and sad in a way too. Plenty of schools now have 2 women for every guy. Terrific to be a guy, right? Maybe. The loser guys are still loser guys and the scarcity of men isn't helping them with women. It's the guys at the top who are reaping the benefit of all the women students. This is female sexuality unleashed from societal restraints. Yay freedom. As with double entry bookkeeping, for every credit there is a debit.
    Is there a version of that for men? What percentage of women do they find below average? And what are the criteria for the women's study? For the men's (if it exists)?

    As for women 'enjoying being a scare commodity,' that is bull****. Sadly, some women I know...and certainly most I read/hear of...are desperate to marry. even worse, that is how we are CONSTANTLY portrayed on TV and in the movies. It makes me sad. Because that desperation, that narrow focus, makes them take just about anybody and put up with anybody. Society has pounded this into their heads from infancy and there is no escape for most...most cannot think outside that box and can only see themselves 'as they imagine society sees them'...as nothing if they are not part of a couple. And then nothing if they dont reproduce.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #484
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Is there a version of that for men?
    It doesn't really matter what the male figure is because it is women who are the gatekeepers to sex. To stretch a point here, men will sleep with most women if only the women would consent. What matters is "The Decider" and that happens to be a she, and she is targeting men well above the medium in terms of what she wants. This means that she's turning down a lot more men that, in this mathematical examination, she shouldn't be turning away.

    As for women 'enjoying being a scare commodity,' that is bull****. Sadly, most women I know...and certainly most I read/hear of...are desperate to marry.
    Are they desperate to marry when they are at the peak of their sexual market value or after they've peaked? This is a key point.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    It doesn't really matter what the male figure is because it is women who are the gatekeepers to sex. To stretch a point here, men will sleep with most women if only the women would consent. What matters is "The Decider" and that happens to be a she, and she is targeting men well above the medium in terms of what she wants. This means that she's turning down a lot more men that, in this mathematical examination, she shouldn't be turning away.


    Are they desperate to marry when they are at the peak of their sexual market value or after they've peaked? This is a key point.
    Yeah...but women are looking for more than sex generally. THey'll have casual sex but often want 'more' with it. And some are stupid but most realize that men are just looking to get laid. Hope gets in the way tho, and men lie very well. Still...I cant believe that so many women do get coerced into sex on false pretenses. Alcohol doesnt help!

    and a similar study for men would still be valid...they have their 'standards.' Not being successful in getting laid shouldnt interfere with that, lol.


    Mostly younger ones. The older ones dont need to be married..they might be lonely but dont need marrriage. And arent looking for kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    I was referring to my own perceptions but my experience is very limited because I married the girl I dated in high school. That's lasted for 39yrs and she's the only one I've been married to. I have seen many friends go through the heart break of divorce, infidelity and financial ruin and that's not for me. If it sounds fun to you by all means give it a whirl!

  7. #487
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Do you think it's an age or maturity thing tho?
    I think it is a bit of a generational thing, absolutely. It's going to be stronger in the younger Xers and Millennials. However, it's also strongest in our lower socio-economic classes.

    But I think everyone matures..in society and in relationships, even tho they dont necessarily survive (the relationships)...and dont remain the same.
    We are delaying maturity more and more and more - it's not just putting off marriage and children until 30, it's all the growing up that occurs when you have to start putting others ahead of yourself. It seems that the natural state for a young male adult is not to finish growing up unless he has to, and so we are extending adolescence until the late 20s and early 30s.

    (Of course some people never grow up true). Dont younger under-achievers and rebels often eventually end up becoming part of the Establishment whether they like it or not?
    That depends. Can they live in the Establishments' basement and play video games?

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    I am watching a PBS special on the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire. Amazing.

    The WOMEN in 1911 organized and went on strike to gain fairer labor laws and unionization. They were beaten and fired and arrested and shamed in public. And still they fought for their rights to safety and fairness. For weeks on end. The judges claimed they were 'on strike against God and nature'. They were shipped to jail and work houses.

    Yeah...that feminist **** was lame. [/sarcasm] They didnt look at it as a feminist issue...it was about equality and survival. Damn they were good!

    Edit: Lord, this is heart wrenching.
    Last edited by Lursa; 02-26-14 at 12:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #489
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That's right...and I bolded all the areas that she would be interviewing people rather than just gathering info 'from the couch.' Her resume spelled it out clearly. You dont make a documentary or have a TV show without *interviewing* people.

    Do you really need this spelled out for you?
    Yes, she has done other things in her life outside of her twenty years as a psychologist where obviously she gained the knowledge that she used towards her book. To suggest she is going to get anything useful out of a TV show is a bit absurd, sorry.

  10. #490
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Yeah...but women are looking for more than sex generally.
    Yeah, but on a dating site they're picking and choosing on looks. There's a mismatch right out of the gate. They SAY that they're looking for more than sex but then they ACT on the photos. If they ACTED in accordance with what they SAY then shouldn't we expect the parameters of acceptable men to be lower in order to give the women greater opportunity to qualify the men on other criteria?

    THey'll have casual sex but often want 'more' with it.
    There's always an opportunity cost. Think back to the Fonzie Era. Before the Pill. Good Girls didn't do IT. A couple would go steady, the stereotype would be the boy pressuring the girl to have sex, she'd refuse him. Rinse and repeat. Eventually he has to make a choice - stick with her or dump her. If he dumps her then he needs a new girlfriend. He can go with the town tramp though. Now what happens if the town tramp isn't socially ostracized by the Good Girls? Other Good Girls but ones on the margin, see that it's not so bad being a town tramp and so they crossover and are rewarded with boyfriends. Good Girls have an incentive to police the boundaries for that denies the men opportunity. If there is no town tramp, then the frustrated boyfriend sticks with the girlfriend because he's not going to get sex any easier out there with a new girlfriend.

    What's the feminist position on slut shaming? Oh yeah, that it's a bad thing. You see what I mean about feminism being incoherent. Yeah, slut shaming isn't pretty, well no shaming actions are pretty, they're all harsh, but there are consequences to refraining from shaming actions.

    So now to modern sexual relations. As the saying goes, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. If a girl doesn't put out, then there is always another girl who will, and so you have girls having sex when they'd rather not, or not so early in a relationship or not before there even is a relationship. Again, change the conditions on one side of the equation and you change the other side. Women now have more sexual freedom. That's a benefit. Well, there's a cost too. The question is which scenario, weighing both costs and benefits, had the larger net benefit?

    Mostly younger ones. The older ones dont need to be married..they might be lonely but dont need marrriage. And arent looking for kids.
    What do you consider "younger ones?" Women's fertility peaks between the ages of 20-24. I'm not seeing a lot of young women that age clamoring for marriage. They're still eager to follow the script at this age. The whole Sex & the City lifestyle awaits them. I'm not considering a 30 year old woman young anymore.

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