View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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    72 70.59%
  • No

    23 22.55%
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    7 6.86%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #461
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Obviously they don't, or they would.
    That is refuted by the fact that you claim that you do, yet you haven't.

    If this were the case, the exact same trend would not be present in far more progressive societies like Sweden, which make a deliberate point of minimizing the economic impacts of marriage and child rearing.

    The simple fact of the matter is that modern notions of "gender roles" are not conducive to marriage or families.
    Not if feminism has no effect on the marriage rate and the birth rate.

    In Japan, feminism has had little effect. It is considered, as verified by the article you linked to, "one of the world’s worst nations for gender equality at work."

    But according to you, "one of the world’s worst nations for gender equality at work" is a feminist nirvana for working women.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #462
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    The whole resentment of 'materialism' keeps showing up in his posts on this subject and it makes some sense now since he just admitted he was broke.
    It's not like there aren't low income women around. Shouldn't low income men also have the opportunity to enjoy the benefits of a marital relationship?

    Don't overlook the fact that we're not hearing from the "cat ladies" in this thread - the one's who've spent their prime years trying to snag a man of high social status, failed, and now that they've ridden the male carousal want to settle for some guy who'll take them and they're not getting any offers. They're losers in this game too.

    Hear the screeching cats out in the alley:

    THE WOMEN ARE IRATE. The women are talking about men, young men, the men they’d like to date and marry, and are they ever pissed. Here’s what they’re saying:

    “All they want is sex. They don’t care about relationships.”

    “They’re so lazy.”

    “All they do is play video games.”

    “They aren’t men. They’re boys.”

    The women are a little bewildered. They’re good girls. They followed the script: did well in high school, got into college, worked hard there, got out, got jobs, started looking around for someone special to share life with, and …

    “I met a guy the other night. Good-looking, smart. Twenty-eight years old. He still lives at home. With his mom.” Young men are now nearly twice as likely as young women to live with their parents; 59 percent of guys ages 18 to 24 and 19 percent of 25-to-34-year-olds live at home.

    That script that women are following, well it really doesn't do much to make women more attractive to men. Having a fulfilling career is good for the woman's own ego, but guys aren't really sorting women by career when it comes to which women appeal to them. There are a lot of women complaining about the state of affairs, so there's no need to focus on one poster's personal life because he's raising awareness of some disturbing trends.

    Check out the cultural script being pushed onto women:

    “The Nine Men to Bed Before You Wed”


    1. The Bad Boy
    2. The Older Man
    3. The Foreigner
    4. The Wealthy Man
    5. The Athlete
    6. A Man in Uniform
    7. The Nice Guy
    8. The Pretty Boy
    9. A Younger Man

    There's a funny little blurb underneath each category. Here's how they describe the Nice Guy:

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    Daisy: CHECK. More than one. But I always got bored. Mature Daisy would love to meet one though.

    Well, these nice guys are the losers in the game when they're young but, as noted above, this writer seems to think that these Nice Guys are going to be her fallback position when she is mature and ready to settle down, then she can offer herself as some kind of prize to these nice guys who were disproportionately sexless during their horniest years of youth. A dried up skank who's slept with half the town is no prize. Hence the male withdrawal from the sexual market place and a retargeting of priorities.

    Sure, both articles are pop culture and so let's not treat them as accurate descriptions of what's going on in society, but let's not overlook that the both stem from a certain female perspective on how women should act and what women should expect. What we're seeing here is female action and male reaction.

    A few pages earlier in this thread a commenter from Albania? mentioned that his society still functions in a less hypergamous model where there is more pair matching and that he was a high status man and, as such, he was losing out on the opportunity of being the target of a lot of female attention. Each system of ordering society has winners and losers. His system, which used to be our system before feminism, produces more stability but at the cost to the top dog.

    This thread has focused on what men are complaining about but what about the cat ladies, what do they have to say?

  3. #463
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I'm not "resentful" of materialism. I am pragmatically materialistic myself. That's exactly why I'm not dating right now.
    You sound just like those Japanese men who don't date because they don't want to spend their money on dates.

    I have literally nothing to offer. I couldn't even afford to live right now if it weren't for other circumstances at play.
    Again, sounds like those Japanese boys

    What I object to is the modern conviction which basically holds that "things" are more important than people. Japanese and American culture alike seem to harbor this particular fallacy in abundance, and it has not lead anywhere productive.
    And yet, you continue to refuse to marry or even date because you don't earn enough to buy enough things. That sounds very materialistic.

    BTW, the idea that a woman should marry a man who can support a family is nothing new. It's very traditional. In fact, throughout most of civilization, the income of the two has been the most important factor in determining who would marry. Traditionally, it would be scandalous for a wealthy young person to marry someone from a lower income class.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #464
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    It's not like there aren't low income women around. Shouldn't low income men also have the opportunity to enjoy the benefits of a marital relationship?

    Don't overlook the fact that we're not hearing from the "cat ladies" in this thread - the one's who've spent their prime years trying to snag a man of high social status, failed, and now that they've ridden the male carousal want to settle for some guy who'll take them and they're not getting any offers. They're losers in this game too.

    Hear the screeching cats out in the alley:

    THE WOMEN ARE IRATE. The women are talking about men, young men, the men they’d like to date and marry, and are they ever pissed. Here’s what they’re saying:

    “All they want is sex. They don’t care about relationships.”

    “They’re so lazy.”

    “All they do is play video games.”

    “They aren’t men. They’re boys.”

    The women are a little bewildered. They’re good girls. They followed the script: did well in high school, got into college, worked hard there, got out, got jobs, started looking around for someone special to share life with, and …

    “I met a guy the other night. Good-looking, smart. Twenty-eight years old. He still lives at home. With his mom.” Young men are now nearly twice as likely as young women to live with their parents; 59 percent of guys ages 18 to 24 and 19 percent of 25-to-34-year-olds live at home.

    That script that women are following, well it really doesn't do much to make women more attractive to men. Having a fulfilling career is good for the woman's own ego, but guys aren't really sorting women by career when it comes to which women appeal to them. There are a lot of women complaining about the state of affairs, so there's no need to focus on one poster's personal life because he's raising awareness of some disturbing trends.

    Check out the cultural script being pushed onto women:

    “The Nine Men to Bed Before You Wed”


    1. The Bad Boy
    2. The Older Man
    3. The Foreigner
    4. The Wealthy Man
    5. The Athlete
    6. A Man in Uniform
    7. The Nice Guy
    8. The Pretty Boy
    9. A Younger Man

    There's a funny little blurb underneath each category. Here's how they describe the Nice Guy:

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    Daisy: CHECK. More than one. But I always got bored. Mature Daisy would love to meet one though.

    Well, these nice guys are the losers in the game when they're young but, as noted above, this writer seems to think that these Nice Guys are going to be her fallback position when she is mature and ready to settle down, then she can offer herself as some kind of prize to these nice guys who were disproportionately sexless during their horniest years of youth. A dried up skank who's slept with half the town is no prize. Hence the male withdrawal from the sexual market place and a retargeting of priorities.

    Sure, both articles are pop culture and so let's not treat them as accurate descriptions of what's going on in society, but let's not overlook that the both stem from a certain female perspective on how women should act and what women should expect. What we're seeing here is female action and male reaction.

    A few pages earlier in this thread a commenter from Albania? mentioned that his society still functions in a less hypergamous model where there is more pair matching and that he was a high status man and, as such, he was losing out on the opportunity of being the target of a lot of female attention. Each system of ordering society has winners and losers. His system, which used to be our system before feminism, produces more stability but at the cost to the top dog.

    This thread has focused on what men are complaining about but what about the cat ladies, what do they have to say?
    I have to wonder if Philly Mag and XOJane are credible authorities on these matters.

    What's next? Links to Cosmo?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #465
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    To this point, she pretty much admitted flat out that when she read the description of the book when she saw the words marriage and kids she had a preconceived notion that men were desiring to make women their inferiors and that the book was expressing this desire. Where would that little preconceived notion come from you think and why would someone have it? Isn't it a bit interesting that she couldn't help herself to express it? Lursa is a sexist, and she can deny it all she wants but I have plenty of evidence towards it.
    Can't there be a simple conversation giving different points of view as judged by our life experiences without using tired terms like 'sexist'? It stunts conversation.I can see you graduated cum laude from your sensitivity training course but you needn't flaunt your credentials here.

  6. #466
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I have to wonder if Philly Mag and XOJane are credible authorities on these matters.

    What's next? Links to Cosmo?
    I didn't say that they were credible, I'm saying that they're culture shapers and they speak to the issues that matter to their readers.

    Look, lots of people on this forum are smart and they can see the vapidity of pop culture, but pop culture does influence a lot of people, so the message of pop culture matters and it's always mattered. When the culture used to push the notion of virginity at marriage, that influenced a lot of people, men and women. By no means was the message translated into complete compliance, and that's not the case today as well, but the cultural message does matter.
    Last edited by RiverDad; 02-25-14 at 10:25 PM.

  7. #467
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    I don't think that this is the proper formulation. What we see is that men without women in their lives are, generally, more content to live in a cardboard box and eat cheerios and play video games. They'll, again speaking generally, work less and only to the point that is sufficient to cover their needs. The labor economics literature shows a very real "marriage effect" for men - increased wages and increased rates of wage raises being sustained for long periods of time in their careers compared to single men. There has to be a reason that men continue to engage in soul-crushing jobs, endure the mindless droning of the workplace, etc. If it's just a matter of meeting survival needs, the work required to earn the pay is far less and that's exactly what we see from men who've been kicked in the nads in the sexual market place. Single guys who are competing for women put in a lot more work effort in order to marshall more resources. Married men out-earn them.

    Remove the prospect of women from a man's live and then you pretty much sap ambition too.

    Those slackers we see growing in number in society didn't really have a counterpart in 1940. There was an expectation of marriage, people got married young, there was no need to self-actualize during your 20s and 30s and then seek to get married. The rate of singlehood was lower, meaning that even the loser guys could match up with their loser girl counterparts. Now you have guys who have "something" by being married.

    Sure, it's not always a bed of roses - being poor and married isn't a Garden of Eden, but it's a sight better than being single, poor and crushed from being a loser in a more fiercely competitive sexual marketplace.
    This is really well written and I think most or all of it's true. BUT...you didnt include that being single can and DOES lead to being successful because of other motivations. The much-despised 'materialism' I suppose. Because we want to DO things or have things I guess. Travel, motorcycles, sailboats, horses, snowmobiles, experiences, independence, nice homes or property, etc.

    I am plenty motivated by my interests to earn $$. And yes, it is one reason I didnt have kids. They ARE expensive and eat into your independence. I wasnt all that hot on the idea to begin with, so why do it then? Why not spend my life, my way?

    But I know I am not an exception...among men or women. I have friends like myself. We do contribute to the economy...we hire and support lots of people and businesses. We dont suck up public assistance dollars or live in hovels. And of course, "yuppies" havent gone anywhere either, have they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #468
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What did you do successfully again? You made the suggestion that I was interviewed by her for her book. This would suggest that either a psychologist interviews people as part of their job, or that she decided to do interviews instead of taking from the knowledge she picked up at her job. Quoting that little paragraph was at best a strawman. I already told you she used the knowledge she gained from her job to write the book, so none of this even has a point in being said...again.
    That's right...and I bolded all the areas that she would be interviewing people rather than just gathering info 'from the couch.' Her resume spelled it out clearly. You dont make a documentary or have a TV show without *interviewing* people.

    Do you really need this spelled out for you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #469
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Johnson View Post
    Those suppositions are unfounded on anything concrete. That's just feminist projection.
    I'm not a feminist, at least not in the militant, 70s sense.

    I asked earlier in the thread for someone to define 'feminist.' Because all American women are being tarred with the feathers in the OP.

    So who is a feminist? All American women?

    Women who hate men?

    Women who dont agree with your views on things?

    How about (my personal view) "women who believe women deserve the same choices and opportunities as men and that women are the equal of men."
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #470
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    It's not like there aren't low income women around. Shouldn't low income men also have the opportunity to enjoy the benefits of a marital relationship?

    Don't overlook the fact that we're not hearing from the "cat ladies" in this thread - the one's who've spent their prime years trying to snag a man of high social status, failed, and now that they've ridden the male carousal want to settle for some guy who'll take them and they're not getting any offers. They're losers in this game too.

    Hear the screeching cats out in the alley:

    THE WOMEN ARE IRATE. The women are talking about men, young men, the men they’d like to date and marry, and are they ever pissed. Here’s what they’re saying:

    “All they want is sex. They don’t care about relationships.”

    “They’re so lazy.”

    “All they do is play video games.”

    “They aren’t men. They’re boys.”

    The women are a little bewildered. They’re good girls. They followed the script: did well in high school, got into college, worked hard there, got out, got jobs, started looking around for someone special to share life with, and …

    “I met a guy the other night. Good-looking, smart. Twenty-eight years old. He still lives at home. With his mom.” Young men are now nearly twice as likely as young women to live with their parents; 59 percent of guys ages 18 to 24 and 19 percent of 25-to-34-year-olds live at home.

    That script that women are following, well it really doesn't do much to make women more attractive to men. Having a fulfilling career is good for the woman's own ego, but guys aren't really sorting women by career when it comes to which women appeal to them. There are a lot of women complaining about the state of affairs, so there's no need to focus on one poster's personal life because he's raising awareness of some disturbing trends.

    Check out the cultural script being pushed onto women:

    “The Nine Men to Bed Before You Wed”


    1. The Bad Boy
    2. The Older Man
    3. The Foreigner
    4. The Wealthy Man
    5. The Athlete
    6. A Man in Uniform
    7. The Nice Guy
    8. The Pretty Boy
    9. A Younger Man

    There's a funny little blurb underneath each category. Here's how they describe the Nice Guy:

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    Daisy: CHECK. More than one. But I always got bored. Mature Daisy would love to meet one though.

    Well, these nice guys are the losers in the game when they're young but, as noted above, this writer seems to think that these Nice Guys are going to be her fallback position when she is mature and ready to settle down, then she can offer herself as some kind of prize to these nice guys who were disproportionately sexless during their horniest years of youth. A dried up skank who's slept with half the town is no prize. Hence the male withdrawal from the sexual market place and a retargeting of priorities.

    Sure, both articles are pop culture and so let's not treat them as accurate descriptions of what's going on in society, but let's not overlook that the both stem from a certain female perspective on how women should act and what women should expect. What we're seeing here is female action and male reaction.

    A few pages earlier in this thread a commenter from Albania? mentioned that his society still functions in a less hypergamous model where there is more pair matching and that he was a high status man and, as such, he was losing out on the opportunity of being the target of a lot of female attention. Each system of ordering society has winners and losers. His system, which used to be our system before feminism, produces more stability but at the cost to the top dog.

    This thread has focused on what men are complaining about but what about the cat ladies, what do they have to say?
    I'm not really sure I'm following you on the women in your example here. Maybe because I dont know them. I know unhappy unmarried older women..most are divorced tho. But they dont sound anything like that. Yes...bitter sometimes and lonely...but nothing like you describe. It may be because you are describing a younger version? Video games? LOL NONE of my friends would waste the time of day with a man that spent any real quality time playing video games or even on the 'Net too much. But Seattle...urban or rural...is a very active, outdoor-oriented place so maybe that's part of it. (It's also hella techno and game oriented tho, so? Again...maybe it's an age thing.)

    But I dont have alot of sympathy for women who base their whole lives around whatever man they are attached to at that moment and must always be with a man or they have no identity of their own. Or who decide to wait until later in life to find a mate "after making a career")...we all know how men view older women...."a woman has a greater chance of being killed by a terrorist than marrying after 40".

    Women are silly to ignore how visually oriented men are. Myself and my friends have successful relationships because we are involved in alot of things and meet guys with the same interests. And lets face it...what guys dont like women that fish and camp and shoot? LOL

    Again, I dont think I really understood the main point of your post, sorry. That's my attempt at interpretation. ^^^

    Edit: I'm not saying that the quote about terrorists and marriage is accurate, just that it became a cliche in mainstream society because of that perception.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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